Name: Drima Abu Hamdan.
Location: Deep, deep down the orgasmic rabbit hole of epistemology.
Bio of Awesomeness: Fundamentalist Muslim, turned free thinking Sufi. Digital influence expert and marketing consultant. Global nomad. Belief systems analyst. Fan of transpersonal psychology. Author of upcoming memoir. Afro-Arab libertarian music junkie. Vehemently anti-Islamist. Loud and drop dead gorgeous. The High Priest of Mischievous "Blasphemy." Read on and have your brain spun. You've Been Warned! ;)
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Sudan: Arab or African?
by DRIMA on FEBRUARY 3, 2007
Ingrid @ Sudan Watch asked the following question:
Since Sudan belongs to both the African Union and Arab League, I wonder if Sudanese women see Sudan as an African or Arab country.Now even though I’m not a woman (Duh!), I’m still going to try and answer Ingrid’s question. Is Sudan an African or Arab country? In other words, are we Sudanese, African or Arab? It’s a tough question to answer for the simple reason that I’m only given the option of choosing between “Arab” or “African”. I don’t see Sudan as being either one or the other. There are about 600 tribes in Sudan. Yes, that’s right, 600 tribes! Ethnically, some are African, some are Afro-Arab and the few remaining others are Arab. Therefore Sudan is an Afro-Arab country. It’s as simple as that but I don’t believe that answers Ingrid’s question or does it? Well in case it doesn’t and I can only choose between “Arab” or “African”, then here are my thoughts. Sudanese girls and boys in da house, indulge me in the comments section if you may.
THE ETHNIC PERSPECTIVE
First of all, let’s discuss this issue from the perspective of ethnicity. Pictured at the bottom of this post are 2 Sudanese girls (aren’t they so cute and innocent). They represent both the far sides of the Sudanese ethnic spectrum. The first picture is of a girl from the Nuer tribe which is an African tribe from Southern Sudan, not Afro-Arab but African. The second is of a girl from the Rashaida tribe which is an Arab tribe from Eastern Sudan, not Afro-Arab but Arab. The Rashaida are the most recent Arab tribe to make into Sudan. They crossed the Red Sea from the Arabian Peninsula about 150 years ago and made it to the north eastern side of the country. Since they arrived recently, they haven’t intermarried with locals. It’s a known fact that a Rashaida father will almost never allow his daughter (or son) to marry outside of the tribe (the same is quite true for other tribes). As such, the Rashaida have remained purely Arab.
Now that both ends of the spectrum have been presented, allow me to further explain the main difference between them. What’s the main difference (besides the obvious)? Well here is the main difference: one is indigenous to the land and the other is not. Arab tribes came from the Arabian Peninsula while African tribes (Nuer, Dinka, Nuba, Nubians etc.) have been in Sudan for ages.
Let’s move on to the next point i.e. the Afro-Arab. “The Afro-Arab” is the product of intermarriage between Arab tribes and African tribes. I am a Northern Sudanese. Ethnically speaking I am a Shaigee. I am of mixed blood, mainly being Nubian, Nuba and Arab. The Nubian and Nuba in me are indigenous to Sudan. The Arab in me was an outsider that came, settled, assimilated into the Sudanese African ethnic pool and as a result made part of it Afro-Arab.
In the big context, it is “the African” that dominates. It’s very difficult finding many pure Arab tribes like the Rashaida in Sudan. They’re minorities. The majority are either African or Afro-Arab. Hence, ethnically speaking and in the big context we Sudanese are mainly African and not Arab. That’s also true for most Northern Sudanese. “The African” still dominates.
Whether we’re Arab or African, can’t be fully answered without taking into account how we Sudanese view ourselves though. For Southerners, that’s not a major issue. It’s simple. They’re Africans. For many Northern Sudanese however it gets a little complicated. Choosing either Arab or African is not easy. Here’s a little test for my Northern Sudanese Afro-Arab readers that should make it easier. Do you want to know how you can find out if you view yourself as more African than Arab or vice versa? Here’s how. Visualize the following and tell me which one you find more offensive.
a) A Persian guy shouting “Arabs are filthy dogs”.
or
b) Some KKK dude shouting “Africans are filthy niggers”.
For most Sudanese I asked, the answer was (b).
THE CULTURAL PERSPECTIVE
We’ve concluded that us Sudanese are mainly African in terms of ethnicity but what about culturally? In terms of culture are we Arab or African? Again, I’d say that for Southern Sudanese, this won’t be a major issue. Unlike many Northern Sudanese, they’re not suffering from an identity crisis. Southern Sudanese are both ethnically and culturally African but this is not really true for Northern Sudanese. For the Northern Sudanese who are dominantly ethnically Afro-Arab, it’s a different case. All Afro-Arab tribes in Sudan (and even some African ones) have been Arabized even if not fully (keep in mind that along with Arabization came Islamization and Islamic culture). Therefore culturally speaking Northern Sudanese are mainly Arab due to Arabization and not African.
In the big context, I believe that it is the Arab culture that dominates in Sudan. Yes, many Afro-Arab tribes have retained a lot of African traditions and have not been fully Arabized. Yes, the Arab culture in Sudan might be sort of loose but it is what ties many tribes together and is what’s common amongst them besides Islam. About 70% of Sudan’s population is Muslim. Moreover the majority of Sudanese also speak Arabic together with other languages. They’re multilingual.
CONCLUSION
Now this is the really difficult part. (Voice inside my head: damn it, why do you have to choose between Arab or African man? Why can’t you just choose both?). Well like I said at the start of my post. Sudan is an Afro-Arab country. It’s really that simple. However to which side do we belong more? If you as a Sudanese had to make a choice, which one would you choose? African or Arab?
As I’ve presented, ethnically speaking we Sudanese are mainly African but culturally we’re more Arab than African (thanks to Arabization). So, which one do we belong to more? Which one do we choose? In order to give an answer, I have to ask another question. Which one plays a bigger role in forming one’s identity? Would that be ethnicity or culture? For me, the answer is ethnicity.
A girl from the Neur, an African tribe (Malakal, Southern Sudan).
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A girl from the Rashaida, an Arab tribe. (East Sudan).
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{ 181 comments… read them below or add one }
1Marta 02.03.07 at 6:52 pm
Great post, congratulations. You have explained very clearly the ethnic/cultural backgrounds in Sudanese people. I knew that Sudan was arabized and that the arab-culture was more influential in the North but I didn’t know about the different tribes and the relation between them.
This is a very interesting issue as many other people are debating their ethnicity/cultural backgrounds, for instance the berbers in North Africa.
2Guest 02.03.07 at 9:45 pm
I doubt the picture of the Nuer girl is actually Nuer. Her features are very different from a Nuer people.
3halalhippie 02.03.07 at 10:12 pm
Great post, lovely girls. (and the African is veiled and the Arab is not) hmmmm….
Very thoughtful as always. You da man, Drima.
4The Raccoon 02.03.07 at 11:12 pm
Great post, man!
5beninmwangi 02.04.07 at 12:18 am
Drima:
Bravo, Five Mics, Five Stars, perfect 10 out of 10 here. My friend you never stop amazing me with your marvelous insights. You have educated me so much, in one day. As you mentioned in the comment section of my blog, you are an entrepreneur. But, you are so versed on culture, societal issues, and the world at large. You could be a professor on such topics easily-ever the philosopher.
Also, as compared to the everyday person of America who has never left the borders, I have considered myself somewhat more familiar with Africa and the world at large. But, the Sudan has always been a bit of an enigma for me, because whenebver Sudan is described in the media it is from a very polarized picture frame of reference. One hears about the Arab north and the Black south or the Christian south. You’ve answered a big question for me here-thanks!
6person 02.04.07 at 12:55 am
I agree with guest that girl isn’t nuer.
7howie 02.04.07 at 4:09 am
Drima-
Nothing new about tribalism…if it isn’t racial, then it is ethnic, or religious…and of course within each of those groups we have our tribes.
And if we can’t get all excited about that…well …it can be like L.A. and other parts of the world I am sure…tribes are based on your neighborhood or maybe the school you attend…
The supposition that your “tribe” really has a lot to do about who you are is rubbish. I don’t much care about culture, or nationality or race…it is all entertaining to joke and talk about and yes, of course, aspects of these things do influence attitude and behavior.
But this is all about accident of birth. To me…your culture or nationality or race is NOTHING to be proud of nor is it anything to be ashamed of…because you did not earn it, work for it or choose…it just happened to you…you can only really have pride or shame in who and what you are.
But we make a big damn deal out of this shit…and not enough of a big damn deal about promoting goodness….goodness…period.
8Precious 02.04.07 at 6:53 am
Amazing post Drima.. I dont think anyone can put it better than you did..
I did write a little about it in a more personal prespective in my post ”African Roots or Arab Culture
Though I must say that howie do have a point when he said :”But this is all about accident of birth. To me…your culture or nationality or race is NOTHING to be proud of nor is it anything to be ashamed of…because you did not earn it, work for it or choose…it just happened to you…you can only really have pride or shame in who and what you are. ”
But then again, I am LOVING my African culture.. and commited to my Islamic Culture as well,, but the only things that relates me to Arabs, is the Language.. nothing else!!
And thats ofcourse is only my personal opinion on the matter..
Thanks for opening such an intresting topic.
9The Ususal Suspect 02.04.07 at 7:55 am
Interesting and thoughtful post Drima.
I have to ask- what is African? This question has come up time and time again in my work place as we talk about “Africans” as they are one homogenous group- Africa is a continent- made up of I don’t know how many countries (Drima you know how bad my geography is- Gobi Desert in Australia!!!).
So when we say African, what do we mean?
10Black Kush 02.04.07 at 12:36 pm
I amire your great efforts at explaining the unexplainable identity crisis of the Sudanese people. As a person from South Sudan, I know with out doubt am African, tall black and all Nilotic feaures.
I agree with the Guest above that the girl doesn’r look like Nuer o me either! Nuers are typically pitch black Drima. Unless if she is of mixed marriage! That google image smells of fraud.
11Hipster 02.04.07 at 1:02 pm
Wow, Drima, interesting, thought-provoking & insightful article!!! One of your best!
To answer your question, I think the scale would be more tipped towards (b).However, being an expat, am I choosing “African” because I was persecuted by the Arabs in the UAE despite having Arab friends?Would my answer be different if racism didn’t exist? I wonder….
Hmm, ethnically, I’m Nubain, Egyptian, Ethopian,Turkish & Kurdish.Culturally, I guess I’m an Arab Muslim although there are many Sudanese traditions that I have learned about only when I went to Sudan.
So to answer Ingrid’s question, I prefer to regard myself as an Afro-Arab.
One reservation though: Why don’t the North African countries face the same identity dilemma? They are Africans too yet they are regarded as Arabs?Is it due to their light-skinned complexion?
Somebody please fill me in.
12Hipster 02.04.07 at 1:04 pm
Pz, disregard the grammatical & punctuation mistakes.Grrr.
13Hipster 02.04.07 at 1:05 pm
Drima, why does it keep saying that my comments await moderation?
14tsedek 02.04.07 at 1:41 pm
Good explanation, Drima - thx
15tsedek 02.04.07 at 1:45 pm
Hipster moroccans are not seen as arabs but tamazighs - they very much want to make that clear. although arabs also mingle in with the population.
16Drima 02.04.07 at 3:25 pm
Halalhippie, LOL. Not every girl that covers her hair means she’s wearing a hijab. She’s just covering her hair probably because she had a bad hair day or something. It’s nothing religious dude.
Beninmwangi, my pleasure.
“it just happened to you…”
Howie, this post is meant to dig deeper about that “it”.
TUS, how u doing mate? I’m afraid to answer your question properly, I’m going to have to write another long post but a short answer would be this: Africans are people who are indigenous to Africa. Egyptians are Africans, or more accurately ancient Egyptians were Africans. Today’s are a mix of many things.
Black Kush, ya about the picture, I think the girl might be mixed. Her skin might seem too light for her to be Nuer but I have a southern friend who says he’s Nuer and his skin tone is just like hers so I figured she’s Nuer too (as Vit Hassan the photographer who took the picture also said).
http://flickr.com/photos/vithassan/108673269/
“Why don’t the North African countries face the same identity dilemma? They are Africans too yet they are regarded as Arabs?”
They do Hipster. Just ask Algerians, Morrocans or Libyans and see what they’ll tell you.
Thank you all for your feedback.
17jonah84 02.05.07 at 3:07 am
Drima, this is very thoughtful article. I do believe countries which have recent admixtures tend to have some identity complex or crisis.
I wonder what percent population the “pure” Arab or “pure African” group make?
Another question does the fact a person speaks arabic make him an Arab?
When I was going to university, I noticed that Africans students from francophone countries tended to perceive themselves as “French” whereas those from Anglphone countries did not perceive themselves as “English”.
Of course, this could be baggage of colonization but most of those people I am talking about were born post independence era.
In terms of French form imperialism if person speaks French and accepts French culture no matter the physical appearance that person could become “French” usually at the expense of their native culture.
I wonder if something like that is at play in Sudanese Identity discussion. It is possible to equate Arabic language with French language and Islam with French Culture.
Is it possible for people to identify with “Arab” identity just for speaking the language?
I wonder percentage of egyptian population is truly Arabic.
Or did they become Arabic because they do not speak any other language?
For example, an another African country Eritrea has similar afro-arab admixture and even more mixed than Sudan but the country and people do not identify themselves as “Arabs”. In Eritrea Arabic is one of “working” language used but it is not the “official” language.
It seems in countries where the native language is maintained the Arab identity is not claimed even if there is a mixture i.e. Eritrea, ethiopia, Iran, pakistan, etc..
18person 02.06.07 at 5:28 am
Actually not all nuers are pitch black, it’s just her facial features are not common with any nuer subclan.
19Hipster 02.06.07 at 6:24 am
Tse & Drims,thankx for the feedback.
20Quinton Henderson 02.09.07 at 9:39 pm
I am a 19 year old African American of Sudanese descent, and I have a burning question. I would like to know how much the Africans and Arabs in Sudan dislike each other. I personally Identify as being pure African, and I would like to see Sudan restore it’s original Ancient Nubian civilization fee of Arab influences. I am NOT and I repeat NOT a racist. I’m simply perplexed by the fact that during the Nubian era which predates Egypt by at least 5000 years, Our nation enjoyed a tremendously lengthy period as a major world civilization (contrary to conventional belief witch is only now being overturned) from Queen Candace’s bloodless repelling of Alexander the Great, to Taharqa’s successive conquests of Egypt, the Assyrians and his campaigns as far as Gibraltar, all occurred under Pure African administration. Islam and Arabs originally are alien to our society, and their introduction to our civilization was NOT peaceful. Arabs frequently tried to conquer our nation and failed militarily the majority of the time but, they brought with them Islam as diplomats and history has shown the decline of Sudanese civilization starting with the widespread acceptance of Islam. The point I’m trying to illustrate, is that we were FAR more prosperous affluent and in general powerful as a nation and people BEFORE we assimilated Arabs and their customs into our society. Our authentic culture propelled us to greatness in the past, so WHY do we allow a foreign set of traditions predominate over our nation? If I accidentally offended anyone reading this I sincerely apologize, but I don’t believe our society should completely neglect it’s glorious Nubian past in favor of a religion and people who we have had to repeatedly crush militarily just to sustain our state.
21Drima 02.10.07 at 12:27 pm
Bro, drop me an email in my inbox so I won’t forget to get back to u… i think i might write a whole post about this…
22Rihab 02.10.07 at 2:49 pm
i really hate our ongoing identity crisis, seriously, i think we are the most psychologically messed up ppl on the planet!
i did your test and i guess i’m more african since i’d be more offended at the nigger reference… but on a general level do i feel arab or african?? well, i’d say it depends on my mood lool! the sad thing is that although i meant that as a joke, it is partially true, somedays i feel a very strong affinity for arabs and other days it’s for africans. however, i would say i can relate more to arab culture than i can to african culture… in which case i perceive myself as culturally arab and racially african.
that being said, i think on a political level if we are serious about sudanese unity northerners need to try to let go of the over-attachment to arabs, and focus more on establishing a holistic sudanese identity.
… and one more point, i don’t think it’s true that people will only strictly marry from their own tribe, i think ppl from northern tribes are quite open to marrying other northern tribes.. i think issues occur when we’re talking about north/south marriages.
23Don Cox 02.10.07 at 5:16 pm
You might compare Sudan with New Zealand. Is NZ a European country or a Pacific country?
I think most of the North African countries can be seen as Arab colonies. The parallel with French colonialism and the Francophone African countries is quite close.
Whether colonialism is a good or bad thing in the long run is another question.
24Quinton Henderson 02.12.07 at 1:51 am
Yeah our Sudanese identity crisis is quite a mess. Good thing I don’t have it because I am undeniably pure African, but perhaps it is not as bad as we think. To my surprise I’ve found that many Arabs, Indians, Asians etc.. don’t dislike me as I previously thought the would. Along with the Sudanese issue, it was included that the Indian caste system was based on lighter skin at the top so I thought they all hated blacks. I was wrong, I asked my math teacher Mr. Patel and he said it didn’t exist. And they also said that most orientals disliked blacks because they are supposed to have a preference for lighter skin. I ‘m coming to see this as false as well. Assuming this was all true, I avoided them thinking we would only be enemies. I’m not a bad person, I simply thought that was true, and I don’t allow myself to be a victim of racism without an equal retaliation on my part. Theres even a gorgeous Egyptian girl in my computer class and she’s very friendly toward me. All in all, the media and eccentric human rights activist could be blowing this out of proportion. Oh and Drima, my email is gift397470@aol.com if you wanted to write another post regarding this matter.
25Dj. Ram`mi`ran 03.01.07 at 1:54 pm
Wow, that gurl is not even close features as a nuer tribe…where do they get the picture?
26Sarah 03.02.07 at 2:25 pm
i actually dont agree with the concept of sudanese arabs being afro arabs at least not all of them,as a matter of fact i origianally come from northern(al shimaliyah,and no im not nubian!) and let me tell u i look arab so do the people of my family,some dark skinned but with arab caucasian facial features and u no what ive seen sudanese who look germanic and there parents arent mixed they actually look more european than arab. enough said
27Sarah 03.02.07 at 2:27 pm
to add to that,there parents have different ancestries (like me bieng arab or predomenantly arab) but they are still sudanese
28ashenafi 03.03.07 at 8:39 am
I repeat you Sudanese are African. I repeat you sudanese are African.
Love yourself.
29Mohamed 03.03.07 at 6:21 pm
I think it would be a lot easier for Sudan to be African. I wish it would drop the whole ‘Arab’ business and become what it should have been. I agree with you that ethnicity plays a larger role — you can always learn a new culture.
30Ahmad al-Safawi 03.15.07 at 4:00 pm
I am a european citizen of mixed Egyptian ancestry, my mother is from Alexandria (light skin) and my father is from Aswan (dark skin). It is wrong to claim that North Africa is colonized by arabs. In fact, you really cannot know 100% how much of the DNA of the north african population is nubian, sub-saharan, berber & arab. You cannot either know how much of it is greek or roman. I think that a big percentage of the Population of Lower Egypt and Libya might be Arab by DNA, while most of Morcco and Algeria might be berber by DNA, and most of Upper Egypt might be nubian, but we’ll never find out excactly how many.
When my mother is from Lower Egypt, and my father is from Upper Egypt, then what am i? Most of the features of my fathers family assemble africans, and most of the features of my mothers family assemble arabs and even europeans. The same might apply for many people in all of Northern Africa - many moroccans might be mixed between berber and arab ancestors, and many northeners in Sudan might be mixed with different tribes - arabs, nubians and others alltogether. Thus ethnicity cannot be based on DNA entirely, especially not in this case where the population is so mixed.
No nubian is less sudanese than an arab, because historically, Sudan did not exist. The african south was never united with the nubian north in the past! This only happended due to british colonism, and nothing else, and at that time, many arabs were living in the north and the east.
If North Africa is that mixed, then what is our correct ethnicity, if it cannot be based on DNA entirely? Are we Algerians, Egyptians and Sudanese people? Are we arabs, berbers, nubians and africans?
First of all, 90% of Egypts population and 70% of Sudans, is muslim. Over 95% of the population in Morocco, Mauritania, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya is muslim. Thus it is correct to say the Islam is the major religion in Northern Africa.
One would say that this does not answer the question about our ethnicity, but yes, is does! The Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (saw) said: “Being an arab is not something you inherit from your mother or your father, it is just a language that is spoking. So whoever speaks arabic, he is an arab”. It is well known that this was refering to Bilal the Ethiopian, Salman the Persian and Suhayb the Roman, which were’nt arab in any way ethnically!
If aryans such as persians and romans can become arabs by speaking the language, the same is true for africans.
So all muslims in Nothern Africa who speaks arabic, then they are arabs! Dark skin & frizzy hair does not make the words of our Prophet (saw) invalid, this was the feature of Bilal al-Habashi, and according to the Prophet (saw), he was Arab!
All sudanese muslims who speaks arabic, is arabs, along with all other north african people.
31Elshadi 03.16.07 at 7:49 pm
How can sudanese be exclusively african when arabic is the official language? if we were to count on genetics only, only the population of the Arabian Peninsula and parts of the Mashriq would be arabic today, which is certainly not the case. In fact the Arab league consists mainly of nations outside the Arabic peninsula (including Somalia!) So if Lebanon can be arab, then Sudan can be arab too!
yubqa al7ob yejma3 Al-Sudan inchallah
32Drima 03.17.07 at 5:32 am
Wow! I didn’t know this post was still attracting new comments!!
33moroccan 03.30.07 at 4:01 pm
The overwhelming majority of Moroccans and Algerians are Berbers/Amazigh. This has a genetic basis – the people of North West Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and some of Mauritania) for the most part are ethnically separate from both Arabs and Africans although both groups have intermarried with the Berber peoples.
Intermarriage is good for the health of a population in respect of genetics.
34neamah 04.06.07 at 1:32 pm
let me make this clear,
sudan is a massive country with so many different people withe different ancestries ranging from the trurks to the sub saharan africans,so basically since the official language is arabic,culturewise:Arab,ethic wise:an indivisual thing,I have met sudanese with ancestors from the arabian peninsuala,i have met ones with turkish ancestors,i have met copts,nubians,black africans etc. i have even read of armenian people who are sudaneeas a matter of fact i met a young girl she is sudanese,claiming she is origianally from the northern province of sudan when i look at her i get all kinds of ideas in my head:she can be pakistani,yemeni,turkish,portugese,hispanic,whatever,mediterranean.so you guys sudan is a large country with a large spectrum of people so whatever you are be proud
35sweh 04.08.07 at 9:00 pm
Arabs are invaders living on land they do not belong to its like that group of people he posted that were perdecuted from saudi arabia they go to other countries think they are better and try run things and eventually take it over.
think of the things palestinians say about jews can be said about arabs in africa who press their beliefs on african people or even kill them, and lets not forget arab nationalism, theres 21 arab countries abd what would these arabs contries do to africans if african people heavily migrated to many arab countries?
What has arabs done positve in africa past and or present?
they mostly force their ideas on people.
and sudanese ppl are not african americans, african americans are a ethnic group of americans of african descent. sudanese people in america are sudanese american.
642: the Arabs conquer Egypt (mainly monophysite) from Byzantium, destroy the library of Alexandria and found the first mosque in Africa, Amr Ebn El Aas Mosque (the site of future Cairo)
647: the Arabs expand in nothern Africa
670: the Arabs led by Uqba ibn Nafi fight the Berbers in northern Africa
Egyptian ruler Mehemet Ali conquers Sudan on behalf of the Ottoman empire
1941: the Ba’ ath Party is founded in Damascus by Michel Aflaq and Salah al-Din Bitar with the mission to unify the whole Arab world in one Arab country
1945: The League of Arab States is formed by the independent Arab countries (Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen)
1947: the Baath Arab Socialist party is founded in Syria by Michel Aflaq with an emphasis on Arab nationalism
1961: Nasser of Egypt launches a program of “Arab socialism
1962: Saudi Arabia abolishes slavery
ARAB, PERSIAN, TURKIC TIMELINE
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/arabic.html
36sweh 04.08.07 at 9:08 pm
http://www.memri.org/bin/opener_latest.cgi?ID=SD153507
37Surfinit 04.14.07 at 12:29 am
Umm..HI
Well this is really interesting. I’m Sudanese, but I’ve never lived there,I’ve only be on visits. I was born in Saudia Arabia and now live in Colorado. The first post was amazing and really through however I don’t think it applies to all Sudanese people. It would be nice to know what you really are but I don’t think that’s really possible…Personally, I consider myself Arab. I know for a fact that my grandfather’s ( my mom’s dad) acenstory is pure Arab. My Grandmother (mom’s mom)is straight from Morocco. My dad is from El- Obied, Sudan they might be Afro- Arab… but they also trace their ancestory to the Arabian pennisula…my point is that it depends. Libya,Morocco Egypt and so on are easily accept by conteries in Arabian penisula as Arabs because they have lighter skin tone, I’d like to know why Sudanese people aren’t regarded as Arabs then?
38Moe 04.16.07 at 4:13 pm
You are in africa, you are AFRICAN
You speak arabic, you are ARAB
Your culture is afro-arab, you are AFRO-ARAB
You have a problem, may the arabs and the africans help you resolve it. But they wont, you have only your selfs this times. So let me try agian, may THE SUDANESE help you.
You have so much in common, but you onley like to se the difference, that is your (and many others) problem today, instead look for what unites you.
what ever you chose or are, you will always have friends from the “arab world” (the people) and the african world, we are eternal neighbours (includes african, arab-african and arab sudanese).
For DRIMA
What about the OIL and foreign interference…,?
One last word, if you are one then you are one, if you are two or more then you are two or more, and not one less.
VIVA LA SUDAN! from palestine
39Wilberto 04.17.07 at 11:25 am
Drima said:
First of all, let’s discuss this issue from the perspective of ethnicity. Pictured at the bottom of this post are 2 Sudanese girls (aren’t they so cute and innocent). They represent both the far sides of the Sudanese ethnic spectrum. The first picture is of a girl from the Nuer tribe which is an African tribe from Southern Sudan, not Afro-Arab but African. The second is of a girl from the Rashaida tribe which is an Arab tribe from Eastern Sudan, not Afro-Arab but Arab.
Wilberto says,
There are over 40 million Sudanese, the pure Arab Rashaida tribe numbers only 70,000. Thats a negligible figure, not worthy of mentioning. Go here for picture of Sudanese Arabs and all other ethnic groups in the Sudan.
http://www.sudan101.com/sud_arabs.htm
40Wilberto 04.17.07 at 11:34 am
Dj. Ram`mi`ran Says:
March 1st, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Wow, that gurl is not even close features as a nuer tribe…where do they get the picture?
LOL! Thats a good question. See Nuers here: ( click on Nuer in the “People Groups.” http://www.sudan101.com/people_groups.htm
41wawawa 04.20.07 at 10:16 am
btw great post that i didnt know
but..im sudanese and i consider myself as an arab yes i do have darker skin them the ancient arabs like many sudanese people
but i speak arabic(as my native language) my family follow the arab and islamic culture
my conclusion is that sudan is neither its mixed the south are africans and the north is arab (thats if you follow arab culture)
p.s…i find it stupid that the govenment in sudan is making such a big problem just to ‘arabize’ the country its up to the southerners, you cant force them to hange culture,religion and lifestyle.
42sweh 05.13.07 at 11:48 pm
the reason why many countries outside of the penisula speak arabic is because of force why is it that people who are not genetically arab dont fight arab conlonist?
-have it ever wonder to you why they changed the meaning of arab? maybe to increase their numbers. but the fact is ther are millions whom are not arab by genetics but speak arabic and is muslim,
43Adeleke,A.A. 05.14.07 at 6:09 am
Can you imagine the impact of Afro-Arab unitry on the possible “United States of Africa.
44Ahmad al-Safawi 05.26.07 at 8:19 pm
sweh: This was not something that arabs “changes”. It was always like that since the time of our prophet (S): Whoever speaks arabic, then he is arab. This is decreasing the value of what you are favoring, namely Nationalism.
My wish for all sudanese people is that the stop hating each other and that they atleast try (even though it is quite another case) to deal with the North/South as we deal with it in Egypt. Or in the words of Samira Said: Kollena Ensan! O sudanese people, by all my heart i wish a bright future for your country.
45des_pes 05.28.07 at 6:44 am
Sudanese people go back and read your History. North Sudanese, Nubians were same people as ancient black Egyptians. Similar religion. While the extreme north was taken by the Romans the southern part flourished for centuries until annexed by Axum. When axum declined various Christian tribe arose influenced by Byzantium connections. The Arabs later invaded and converted you to Islam and Arabic was imposed on you. How does that make you Arabs? You are dark in complexion, no different that the people of the horn. Why would you dare deny your Africaness and associate yourself to a backward people like Arabs who sometimes go as far as calling you niggers? There are more Arab looking people in Ethiopia and Eritrea than you and they don’t dare call themselves Arabs, as the word Arab instigate the word “filth” Fuck Arabs and their backward oppressive culture.
46des_pes 05.28.07 at 7:11 am
The sooner you North Sudanese stop this bullshit of being Arab, the better it is for you, for one you will dissociate yourselves from Arabs and their backward culture and doctrine, lazy, stupid and oil drenched mofos. Second, the huge part of Sudan is not even Muslim. For you northerners to even try and Arabize them its a shame, you confused yourselves and you try to impose that confused outlook on them. Free yourselves from this enslaved mentality and the horn will be in a better shape for good. One more point, if you were born in Africa, and your Parents are from Africa you are African. end of discussion. We know these light skinned northern countries in the Sahara are are trying to dissociate themselves from the rest of Africa, but if your ass is in Africa, you are African.
47Drima 05.28.07 at 7:28 am
des_pes, I welcome opinions as extreme as they maybe but could you please refrain from using insults?
thanks.
48des_pes 05.28.07 at 7:57 am
Sorry, my emotions flooded by brain. I do not like Arabs and when my own Africans claim to be Arabs I went overboard. There is other discussion I am part of where Arabs calling Black African Muslims names. So that is the reason, you will not find my posts containing bad language from here on.
49Drima 05.28.07 at 8:10 am
Thanks man, I appreciate it
I’m for free speech and everything but let’s just keep it healthy.
50des_pes 05.28.07 at 8:11 am
Here is another example, do South African whites consider themselves European? leaving all other matter aside, here these people consider themselves Africans. What’s with you Sudanese? My point is, there is no positive gained by being Arab, 1. you are not, 2. keeping this confused outlook will only bring misery to your country.
51Ahmad al-Safawi 06.03.07 at 10:10 am
So, des_pes, according to you, i am also African, even though i am egyptian, a little fair skinned and most certainly Arab? According to you, New Zealand is a polynesian country, and everybody residing there is polynesian, regardless of their origin and their culture?
No man, it is not that simple. Being an arab has nothing to do with being backwards. Man, if you are trying to make this a competition between Arabs and Africans in culture and civilization, then the result is certain for everybody. But hey - that does not mean anything. We are all equal in the sight of God.
And by the way, Nubians and the ancient egyptians aint not the same people, egyptians being hamitic while nubians being nilochadic.
52Enjoylife !!! 06.03.07 at 2:17 pm
Ahmad al-Safawi
Egyptians are hamitic which means from Ham. Also, the first pharaoh was black. Arabs and the rest of the world are always trying to seperate blacks from Egypt. Just stop it. Do your research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Cush
–The term Cushite or Cushi (כושי) for black-skinned people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamitic
–Ham’s sons were said to have fathered the peoples of Africa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kush
–In the Bible and archaically a large region covering northern Sudan, southern Egypt, and parts of Ethiopia, Eritrea, and Somalia were known as Cush
53Enjoylife !!! 06.03.07 at 3:00 pm
Yes, Cush is from Ham by the way, the son of Ham.
If you are born in Africa, you are African. Do not attempt to say you are Sudanese and Arab but not African.
Ahmad al-Safawi: If I have now learnt to speak Arabic, does that make me an Arab now??? No, that is completely wrong. Africa is a black land not divided by the desert ( sub-Sahara ). Arabs came after, AND YES, including Egypt.
In terms of Ethnicity of Sudan, if you are Nubian, that is true Sudanese, and there is no argument. If you are anything other than that, you came afterwards and have mixed-Afro-Arabs, or are just straight Arabs who try to claim they are Sudanese, but are not indigenous to that land but are from the Arabian-Peninsula.
It is now a mixed society now, Nubian, Afro-Arab and Arab. Yes you were all born there, but the truth is, black are indigenous, anything else isn’t. If you are anything different to the indigenous inhabitants, you are Sudanese only by birth place. The culture was imported by Arabs, and is not true Sudanese.
Sudanese were more similar to Egyptians which again proves they are black. If the Egyptians speak Arabic and the ancient Egyptians never, doesn’t that mean the Arabs brought that in. Egyptians had their own language which was similar to Sudan along side culture, thus making my point stand.
Drima 100% accurate with his post.
54SWEH 06.05.07 at 4:34 am
http://www.sudan101.com/people_groups.htm
The Masalit of Sudan
The Masalit are a 250,000 strong non-Arab people group living in the most remote and unknown areas of the North African countries of Sudan and Chad. Approximately 140,000 of these live in Sudan, primarily in the west near the border with Chad. The Masalit developed a reputation for being fiercely independent—they had their own language and customs, produced everything they needed to survive and were capable of defending their own borders. In more recent years, however, political, economic and cultural processes have brought them into increasing contact with the outside world.
The Jaaliyin of Sudan
The Jaaliyin claim to be direct descendants of the prophet Mohammed, the founder of the Islamic faith. It seems more likely, however, that their original ancestors are the Nubians and that the Jaaliyin gradually adopted the Arab culture.
The Sudanese Arabs
The Sudanese Arabs find their heritage in the Bedouin who wandered the deserts of Saudi Arabia centuries ago. They are now a diverse group of 16 million people who find their commonality in the language of Arabic and the religion of the Islamic prophet Mohammed. The largest people group living in the North African country of Sudan, they have spread throughout the countries of North Africa and the Middle East, but a majority can be found living in either Sudan or Egypt. While three million of those living in Sudan belong to the supratribes of the Jahayna or Jaaliyin, the rest can be found primarily by their self-identification as an Arab from Sudan, rather than as a member of a specific tribe or people group. The single thread of a common culture binds these Sudanese Arabs with other Arabs from around the world. Aspects of pure Arab life, such as rigid codes of honor, loyalty and hospitality, have remained strong in the Sudanese Arab culture.
Although some Sudanese Arabs have continued living in the nomadic style of their ancestors and others live in urbanized towns, the majority live in small rural villages, where they grow grains, vegetables and cotton and raise livestock. Although farming is the chief occupation of the villagers, some have jobs as religious leaders or skilled carpenters or tailors.
The role of men in the Sudanese Arab society, as in all other Arabic cultures, is extremely important. Children, and especially male children, are highly valued. Women are in a subservient position but are more liberal and dress more freely than many of their counterparts around the world.
As with other Arabic societies, hospitality is an important part of the culture. One characteristic of Sudanese Arab culture is the coffee ceremony, which welcomes guests by serving them coffee in an elaborate presentation.
Their Religion
Islam is the religion of the majority of Arabs, and like their counterparts, most Sudanese Arabs devoutly embrace the Islamic faith. It is very common to find them stopping and bowing to pray whenever the call to prayer is heard, whether they are on the roadside or in their shop or business. They also practice the other four pillars of Islam, including the ritual fasting and the pilgrimage to the holy city of Mecca. The rules that govern society, including regulations concerning marriage, divorce, inheritance, taxation and warfare, are all found in Islam’s holy book, the Koran.
The historical link between Arabs and the Muslim religion is still strong. There are few Sudanese Arab Christians, and converts are not well-accepted. While there have been Christian workers in Sudan for many years, most concentrate on reaching Southern Sudanese and neglect the country’s Muslim majority.
The Fur of Sudan
Centuries ago, the old Fur sultans (political rulers) used to derive power from direct and indirect control over the trade of ebony, ivory, spices, rich cloth, slaves and other goods from Darfur to Egypt over the so-called Forty Days Road (Darb al-Arba’een). Today, the Fur are politically associated with the North African country of Sudan, yet they still maintain their tribal solidarity, and are committed Muslims who pride themselves on the fact that they brought Islam to the west of Sudan.
Remarkably, the Fur maintained their independence until the year 1916, when the ruling sultan was defeated by the British and the province was politically integrated into Sudan. It is the Fur language that sets this group apart from surrounding tribes, yet as the decades pass on, many Fur have become increasingly Arabized, especially those who move to the cities and regularly speak Sudanese Arabic, the language of politics, trade and commerce. Despite this Arabization and Islamization, however, the Fur continue to maintain cultural and political consciousness, and their traditions are still very much alive.
The Rashaida(immigrants from saudi arabia)
The Rashaida are closely related to the Saudi Arabia Bedouin, who migrated to Sudan from the Arabian Peninsula about 150 years ago. Many Rashaida also live in the neighboring country of Eritrea; in fact, they make up five percent of the population of Eritrea (3.75 million people). In Sudan, they number around 68,000, and live mostly in the northeast part of the country on the outskirts of the city of Kassala, one of the most frequently visited spots in Sudan.
The Rashaida are a nomadic people who live in tents made of goatskins. They are herdsmen, breeding primarily goats and sheep. Since they are largely illiterate, they memorize in great detail the pedigree of their animals, keeping mental records of their herds over seven or eight preceding generations of the flock, although they usually only emphasize the female lines.
Besides herding, the Rashaida also gain income through jewelry making. It is the veiled Rashaida women who craft much of the silver jewelry sold in the Kassala souq, or market, which is said to be one of the best in Sudan. Along with the jewelry, the Kassala souq supposedly markets some of the best and juiciest fruits Sudan has to offer.
The Nubian People
Location: Historically Nubia extended from Dongola, in northern Sudan, up the Nile to Aswan in southern Egypt. Today Nubians are concentrated in three cities: Kom Ombo in Southern Egypt, and Wadi Halfa and Khashm el-Girba in Sudan.
History: Nubians have a proud and rich heritage. They existed long before the pharaohs, and were once a Christian people. In 580 AD, Christianity became the official religion of Nubia.
Eight years after the death of Mohammed in 632 AD, Arab conquerors carried Islam into Egypt. Over the next two years, Muslim Arabs invaded Nubia. After conquering the Nubian city of Dongola, the Arab general made a treaty with the Nubian king. This treaty re-established trade along the Nile routes, and allowed Nubia to remain Christian for the next six centuries. Terms of this treaty required the Nubians to send 400 slaves per year to the Arabs, while the Arabs returned horses, cloth, and other goods.
Nubia gave way to Islam in the 16th Century as the last Christian church was closed. As it is illegal for Muslims to enslave a fellow Muslim, conversion freed the Nubians from the bond of slavery.
The Aswan Dam was built in stages beginning in 1902. Completion of the High Dam in the 1960s formed Lake Nasser, and flooded the Nubian homelands. Nubians in Egypt were relocated to the Kom Ombo area, north of Aswan. Nubians in Sudan were moved to Khashm el-Girba. Some Nubians remained in the Wadi Halfa area in far northern Sudan.
Identity: Nubians are a non-Arab Muslim people who once lived in the historic region of Nubia. Nubians have dark skin and are visibly distinct from their Egyptian neighbors. Today, Nubians belong to two major societies, the Kenuzi and the Fedidja.
Language: The Kenuzi speak Kenuzi-Dongolawi while the Fedidja speak Fedidja-Mahas. There is also a group within the Nubians who have become Arabicized to the point that their first language is now Arabic. Most of the men today are bilingual, speaking their Nubian language and Arabic. The women are less likely to speak Arabic, especially at home.
Religion: The Nubians are 100% Sunni Muslim. Islam is the only religion legally permitted.
What kind of people spend 15-25 percent of their monthly income on coffee, sing songs about camels and have a glorious crown of fuzzy hair atop their head? The Beja, a nomadic people group with a million and a half members who live in the northeastern portion of the African nation of Sudan.
Eastern Sudan has been the homeland of the Beja since the days of the pharaohs 4,000 years ago. Despite contact with the Egyptians, along with Greeks and Romans, it was the Muslims who finally had a real and lasting impression on the Beja. Although the Beja had partially accepted Christianity in 500 A.D., their conversion was only skin deep and beginning in 640 A.D., when Arabs first invaded Sudan, the Beja began to gradually adopt the Islamic faith. The Arabs did not conquer Sudan, and although many Beja tribes still do not speak Arabic, Islam left a lasting impact on their lifestyle, customs and religious practices.
In general, the Beja have always rejected authority and they greatly value their nomadic freedom. For the most part they have not changed their lifestyle or practices in the last 1,500 years
Cattle and War - The Nuer of Sudan
Numbering approximately one million, the Nuer are the second largest people group (second to the Dinka) in south Sudan. Traditionally, they are cattle herders whose complete way of life revolves around their livestock. Cattle are used for payment of fines and debts and as bride prices in marriage. Children mold clay figures of cows out of clay, ash, wood or any other available material. Young boys have a favorite ox who they give a name and treat as if it was a puppy.
Unfortunately, Sudan’s civil war, which has lasted for over a decade, has devastated this traditional way of life and displaced many Nuer to the safety of the neighboring country of Ethiopia or to places in northern Sudan, such as the capital city of Khartoum. Many Nuer serve with the Sudanese rebel army, although some are at odds with the rebel leader, a member of the Dinka tribe. In the past, war and tribal fighting has broken out between Nuer and their Dinka neighbors.
The Dinka of Sudan
A missionary entered a small Bible school in Khartoum, Sudan. He approached the class of 24 students, including members of the Dinka tribe. Interested in seeing what the students were learning, he asked the class of young evangelists to tell him how he could become a Christian. “None of the 24 could tell me!” he exclaimed in dismay.
Unfortunately, although many of the 2,800,000 Dinka in the North African country of Sudan have been evangelized, much of what they know is head knowledge about Jesus, rather than clear understanding of what accepting Christ is all about. They are in need of sound Christian teaching and Christian compassion.
The Dinka are a tall, thin and very dark skinned people who are found mostly in southern Sudan along the Nile River and into the countryside, generally to the west. There are about five distinctive groups of Dinka. They are the largest people group in the south and make up about ten percent of Sudan’s total popu-lation. Despite this fact, however, they are looked down upon by many other Sudanese, particularly those with lighter skin. They are also rejected by other Sudanese people because of their leadership in the civil war that has ravaged the country for over a decade. The Dinka make up a majority of the rebel army, and in fact John Garang, the rebel leader, is a Dinka.
In this Islamic nation, the Dinka are also rejected because they are Christians, although many claim to be Christians only so they will not be identified as Muslim. Many are Catholic and have mixed Christianity with traditional African religions, while some still follow animistic practices.
The Dinka are traditionally cattle herders. They give their cows names, and sometimes a herder will take the name of his favorite cow and prefer to be called by that name. They are a poor people and the Islamic government in Sudan has limited their opportunities even more.
The civil war in Sudan has been hard on the Dinka. Many families have at least one relative who was killed while fighting the government forces. Even if a Dinka is not involved in the war, people automatically assume he is a rebel just because he is a Dinka. Some Dinka herds have been taken by renegade bands with no clear indication of whose side they are on.
The Nuba Mountain People of Sudan
The Nuba people reside in one of the most remote and inaccessible places in all of Sudan–the foothills of the Nuba Mountains in central Sudan. At one time the area was considered a place of refuge, bringing together people of many different tongues and backgrounds who were fleeing oppressive governments and slave traders. As a result, over 100 hundred languages are spoken in the area and are considered Nuba languages, although many of the Nuba also speak Sudanese Arabic, the official language of Sudan.
The Nuba Mountains mark the southern border of the sands of the desert and the northern limit of good soils washed down by the Nile River. Many Nubas, however, have migrated to the Sudanese capital of Khartoum to escape persecution and the effects of Sudan’s civil war. Most of the rest of the 1,000,000 Nuba people live in villages of between 1,000 and 50,000 inhabitants in areas in and surrounding the Nuba mountains. Nuba villages are often built where valleys run from the hills out on to the surrounding plains, because water is easier to find at such points and wells can be used all year long. There is no political unity among the various Nuba groups who live on the hills. Often the villages do not have chiefs but are instead organized into clans or extended family groups with village authority left in the hands of clan elders.
The Nuba people are primarily farmers, as well as herders who keep cattle, goats, chickens and other domestic animals. They often maintain three different farms: a garden near their house where vegetables needing constant attention, such as onions, peppers and beans, are grown; fields further up the hills where quick growing crops such as red millet can be cultivated without irrigation; and farms farther away, where white millet and other crops are planted. A distinctive characteristic of the Nubas is their passion for athletic competition, particularly traditional wrestling. The strongest young men of a community compete with athletes from other villages for the chance to promote their personal and their village’s pride and strength. In some villages, older men participate in club- or spear-fighting contests. The Nubas’ passion for physical excellence is also displayed through the young men’s vanity—they often spend hours painting their bodies with complex patterns and decorations. This vanity reflects the basic Nuba belief in the power and importance of strength and beauty.
The majority of the Nuba–those living in the east, west and northern parts of the mountains–are Muslims, while those living to the south are either Christians or practice traditional animistic religions. In those areas of the Nuba mountains where Islam has not deeply penetrated, ritual specialists and priests hold as much control as the clan elders, for it is they who are responsible for rain control, keeping the peace, and rituals to insure successful crops. Many are guardians of the shrines where items are kept to insure positive outcomes of the rituals (such as rain stones for the rain magic), and some also undergo spiritual possession.
Because of their unique culture and overall poor job at conformity, both the Muslim and Christian Nubas face the most fierce persecution found in Sudan. On the other hand, those Nuba who are Christians are most likely the strongest believers in Sudan, and the Christian leaders are the boldest to be found in the country. At the same time, however, Nuba Muslims are probably the least accessible people, not only in Sudan but in all of Africa
55Daniel 08.03.07 at 8:39 pm
I have to say, that I could not agree with you in 100% regarding : Arab or African? : The Sudanese Thinker, but it’s just my opinion, which could be wrong
56Ahmad al-Safawi 08.04.07 at 3:57 pm
Now let me tell you. As i wrote hamitic, i were talking linguistic - the branch of the Afroasian language family that is NOT semitic. That is Coptic, Berber, Somali, Oromo etc. etc. etc…
Nubian is not one of those. I have nubian ancestors myself.
The Coptic language is in fact very different from the Nubian one - the Coptic language being Afroasian (like Amharic, Hebrew, Arabic, Somali etc.), while the Nubian being Nilochadic. It is thus wrong to say that Nubian and the Ancient Egyptians were one. Yes, Nubians has for centuries lived in what is today Egypt, and Nubians have even ruled Egypt - but that does not make the Nubians and the Egyptians one.
My fathers family assembles africans, and my mothers family assembles arabs or southers europeans. Am i lesser Egyptians because of my mothers ancestors? Or am i lesser Arab because of my fathers ancestors?
No to both. I am both.
And yes, if you are muslim, then you will automatically be arab if you speak arabic. That was true for Suhayb, Salman and Bilal, and it is true for you and me too. Being an arab is not something that you inherit from your parents.
Then what about the berber? They are indegneous Africans too. That does not mean that they are black.
Being an African is not a matter of color. It is a matter about were you are born.
In same way, you can be a black american, and a black european. You can also be a black arab. And yes - A white african too.
I am AFRICAN, because i am born in a part of Egypt situated in Africa.
I am ARAB, because that is my primary language and my culture is arabic.
I am MUSLIM, because of my belief.
and…
I AM EGYPTIAN!
I will remain these, even if you may hate it.
57fouad 08.23.07 at 6:47 am
I have always believed that arabs and africans are cousins if not brothers because of many factors. I mean we all know the story of Abraham and Hagar. She bore him his first son Ismail who would become the father of the arabs. Hagar was an African servant,and Abraham was a semit. Therefor, arabs are pretty much the product of the medeteranian ethnicity and the african ethnicity. Also, Afria’s closest neighbor happens to be the arabian peninsula. Now, we all know that the black or african gene is dominant especially compared to the white genetic, however arabic genetics are very dominant as well. Infact when arabs and blacks have offspring despite the dominant tendancies of the black genes there are times when the arabic genetics is very visible. I am not saying this is a constant nor that the arab gene is stronger then the black gene because scientificly the black genes are the most dominant. I just believe that in the end the black man of africa, along with the lighter african from north africa and the people of the middle east and arabia are all family and that there should be no need to try and draw lines and borders between which is which and who is what. take me for example look for your self http://www.myspace.com/afrotitan I am of mixed ethnicities I am north african, palestinian and turkish. I have very light skin yet incredibly nappy hair and its red! What do i consider myself? I consider myself over all as a muslim afro arabian because I have african features, my father traces his roots back to north africa, i speak arabic, my mother traces her roots back to palestine, and i also have some turkish heritage. I understand that some africans want to assert their individuality by pushing away any arab roots they have. I also know that there is cruelty from all races especially towards the africans and that there have been arabs that have made money off of slave trading however, let us not forget that there were the blackest of africans who sold their own people for hundereds of years to the white man. So, instead of arguing about who is african and who is arab we need to come to the realiziation that we(meaning blacks and arabs) are both truly brothers and both the followers of God. This is why Allah wants someone to identify themselves as a muslim rather then an ethnic group so their can be no disunity in the umma(community). I have alot of love for the people of African and people of african decent because just as i said the people of africa and the people of arabia are brothers. I mean he used a great example by stating that persian calling an arab a filthy dog and a white person calling an african a nigger. I have never in my life heard an arab racially insult a black person whether christian or muslim because arabs over all are an incredibly diverse people. There are white arabs, black arabs, dark arabs, brown arabs, blue eyed arabs, and even red headed arabs. Unlike Laintos, arabs are even more diverse when compared to their own sub groups. Culturally, I am an arab american because i speak arabic i eat arabic food, and i live in america and i live as an american, but over all of that, I am a muslim and a servant of God and my God commands me and the rest of my people to be respectful and to love my neighbor, and since i am north african my neighbors include the middle easterns, the arabs of saudi and yemen(arabia) and the rest of africa. I am proud of all of my roots and i just hope that one day all my arab and african brothers can see past what the eurapians are trying to do by continuing to divide the people of Allah and turning them against each other.
Peace out to all my niggas and sand niggas and Salamo Alikom
58fouad 08.23.07 at 7:12 am
also regarding Egypt and north africa, being north african myself i can assure you the the people of north africa were never “black” black. They were dark yes, darker then the white man ofcourse, but they were not as black as the rest of the africans. The berbers existed in north africa for thousands of years some say even more then 10,000 years ago. Those people were african, as african as a persom from senegal or the congo, but I think that the ancient egyptians for example were not black, nor arab, but more of a mix of the both. If you look at carving in walls in Egypt, you would see that they had dark skin but not black, althought there are some drawings of blacker indiviuals ,that is because Egypt was a mixed society of black egyptians, dark egyptians and lighter skinned egyptians. North Africa has always been a diverse portion of the world. I believe that the middle east was a bit mroe diverse due to its placement in which it connents 3 differant continents, Asia, Europe, and Africa. That is why arabs are the most diverse people in the world geneticly and ethnicly, but as i said north africa would be the 2nd most diverse because you have had mating between black africans, lighter africans, arabs, and even some europians for cenutires if not thousands of years. I kind of pisses me off that europians believe that ancient egyptians were somehow white, and black africans claim that the ancient egyptians were black, very similar to how whites believe jesus had blue eyes and blonde hair and was white, and africans believe he was a black man. Just as jesus was neither, the egyptias were/are neither. You truely believe that all of the “black” ancient egyptians were wiped off or pushed off their lands and the arabs took over? probably not especially when you look at what happens to a region of the world when the old muslim empire would take over. Spain for example had its golden age in science, phiosophy, mathematics, etc. Many converted to islam in europe, not because barbaric arabs from the desert put swords to their throats, but because the arabs who are also muslims have been taught by their faith to live in peace and harmony with their fellow man and teach them while learning from them. The same happened to Africa when islam spread from arabia. Many flocked and became muslims. back to the point, to make it simple
Original Pure Arabs- the arabs of yaman, saudi arabia, oman, etc
Arabized middle easterns-people of the medeteranian region such as palestine, syria, jordan,etc
Arabized Africans-the people of north africa and some parts of middle africa.
Arabized euopians- whether they like it or not, theyr features have changed due to their arabization, spain, portugal, italy, turkey, and even parts of france
the muslim/arab empire was the fastest growing empire in history. I am in awe by the statement which that person made calling arabs backward. I am not a full arab and never have been infact i have faced racism from arabs when i lived in the middle east due to my lighter skin and my negro hair, that is a part of life, if u r differant then the majority u will eat shit, and since i am of mixed decent that come from all sides i have done my research and i am very certain that africans and arabs are brothers, and so is anything in between which include the berbers, the egyptians, the north africans and so on. Speaking arabic does not make u an arab, but if share arabic culture, if you have arab ancestory then u are arabic, whether ur skin is as white as snow or as black as the night. Arabs are almost at another dimension when it comes to race. Unlike most of the empires that ruled the world, the people of arabia were so humble with their “supposed enslaved” nations that many arabs and the people of the region they controlled would marry and produce offspring. Hence why there are so many parts of the world that have been arabized, which brings me ot my next point, arabs did not force their language nor their culture on anyone. The people who accepted the arabic language were mostly muslims and that is because islam’s holy book was brought down in arabic and God demanded that man learns this language for its beauty and power. Unlike the missionaries who come to africa to this day holding a bible, forcing africans to “become” christians in order to give them food, islam’s message is simple, sumbit to God or move along…There is nothing backward about the beauty and grace of the arabic language nor its original people.hell for example, 10 percent of the slaves that were taken from africa to north and south america where muslims who spoke arabic, so while some of you may believe the filth that the white man tries to portray about arabs and muslims’ influence on africa, just remember that no arabs or north africans enslaved, raped, bred and abused people for over 600 years. There is no black and white in the eyes of God, only faithful and faithless. I suggest to all of you that you get over this race crap because this is what makes life very hard for people like me and you, get your education, if your a muslim that is all you need to worry about being rather then trying to accept one side of your ethnicities and disregard the rest that u dont seem to like because in this day and age the media plays it down. Worship God and make this world a better place, that is what you need to do.
Salam
59Zep Tepi 10.27.07 at 8:04 pm
I am a Black American who has American Indian and English blood. I know I am still BLACK. Black bllod always dominates, don’t fool yourself!
60Damage 12.01.07 at 9:02 am
Fascinating read.
But for me, it begs the question:
If we take the factual history of the slave trade (as opposed to the one-sided version currently doing the rounds, blaming millions of innocent modern whites, based on having the same skin colour as the protagonists): The north africans (or black people as seen back then) who came across the sea to rape and pillage 1.5 million white people, then kidnap them as (mostly sex) slaves - only for the ‘favour’ to be learned, and returned, a couple of hundred years later by whites on africans (the ’slave trade’ we all refer to now) - Could we consider those original slave traders to be african (therefore the revenge was accurate) or arab (inaccurate, but this was a time of ‘black and white’ so generalisation was understandable, perhaps even forgiveable)?
Maybe I didn’t explain that well, but when the white slave traders avenged the previous raids from ‘the black people across the sea’, if they were african not arab, then perhaps the slave trade (the half-baked version told to us today) was more justified than first thought. If it were arab raiders, then the whites who went deeper into africa, with hindsight, didn’t return the favour’ to the right people.
‘Apologies’ to anyone who doesn’t know the real history of the slave trade, it’s a pity we only have the black militant version available in the mainstream: the book ‘white gold’ would be a good starting point.
One amusing anecdote concerns the arabs who kidnapped white slaves well before these events: the whites were constantly described as ‘lazy’.
61fouad 01.10.08 at 4:58 pm
i am sorry to say..but the whites could have not returned the favored to the arabs if they tried and as a matter of fact they did. In the time of the muslim and arab empire, the arabs did infact force some into slavery. Most of the time people who were forced into this slavery were either soldiers or people who had traveled with these soldiers. Also the arabs treated their slaves as workers and these slaves were all skin colors including arabs themselves. If you lost to an arab general you would in turn owe your life to him and can work to pay it of. Furthermore, when the moors who are afro arabs did invade white europe, they did positive things. They brought the white man out of the dark ages and gave them scientific and philosophical advances. They taught them the number zero and gave them banking tacttics. Even the jews had their golden age under moorish rule/ So in a sense, the moors/muslims/arabs who conquered europe did them a favor by making them humans again and treating them as equals. The whites on the other hand enslaved africans and treated them like animals, breeding them, selling them, beating them and so on and so forth. Infact over 10 percent of the slaves brought from africa were muslim. Therefor, we owe you..not you owe us. We helped your people, we shared with them all that we formulated in mathematics, philosophy, theology, medicine, arts, engineerings and so on and so forth….educated yourself better and try not to read your people’s side of the story…because since the innocent days of your elementary school you have been taught lies.
62Asma Ana 01.28.08 at 3:30 am
Dear all,
Please read “War of Visions: Conflict of Identities in the Sudan” by Francis Mading Deng, a distinguished Sudanese scholar to get some perspective on this identity crisis in the Sudan.
63ibrahim salah 02.07.08 at 12:25 am
I don’t think it’s ideal to make an issue or deal out of it. we are as we are and should be proud of this. this type of disscussion is not benefit any one.
64Chimande 02.19.08 at 10:09 pm
As you said before, indiginous African were Arabilized and Islamized at the same time by Arab. They’ve adopted Arabs culture and tradition. Therefore, it’s their choice to call themselves Arabs or Africans. But I think it would be a great shame for those who had lost their cultural identity, when they’re ask whether they Arabs or Africans. It’d be better for them to said we Africans because they were the native of the land before assimilation took place, as the knew. For real arabs, it’s find to call themslves arabs.
}: Sudan at large is in Africa. Why don’t we called ourselves Africans?
In my conclusion, let’s take arab as one of the enthic group in Sudan, like Dinka, Nuer, Nuba, Acholi and many others. So take this: Arabs are Arabs, Dinka Are Dinka, and Nuer are Nuer. But if we come together as Sudanese, We ARE AFRICANS!!!!
Believe it or not!
Thanks by the way.
65Cocoa Chic 03.12.08 at 6:37 pm
Oh my Gosh!! This dialogue has been going on for over a year. Everyone is mixed and everything all depends on complexion and hair texture. This is how people classify who and what you are. This is to mentally place themselves in a position of superiority based upon what society has taught us. Everyone does it. Europe has globally imposed their views on what they deem good. Africa is the Motherland and all other countries and continents are her children. Everyone is African is my opinion regardless of skin color.
66Salam Taki 03.13.08 at 2:56 pm
Hi Sudanese Thinker!
Let me re quote so that I may understand:
“Since Sudan belongs to both the African Union and Arab League, I wonder if Sudanese women see Sudan as an African or Arab country.”
Ok! Lets go:
Sudan is a country in a continent called Africa. Period. The people who call this continent called Africa, their home are called Africans.
I think Sudanese women should know that Sudan is in Africa, and therefore is African.
Arab Country! A country for Arabs! Ah! An Arab is a person from the geographical area called Arabian Pennisula! Sudan is not in the Arabian Pennisula.
Sudanese women had better known this.
African and Arabs are merely expressions of a geographical location. African can be a people, a culture, a thing name it and similarly should Arab or Arabian.
Several times, the connotation “African” has been used as a euphemism to refer to people who are black but in reality with a beautiful darker skin complexity! African is belonging to a continent called Africa.
I came across you site recently and I should be visiting with a regularity! I am a New Sudanese. Your blog’s name is my exercise.
Your peace, Salam Taki
67elsaid 03.26.08 at 3:05 pm
Why ?
68Nasser 07.07.08 at 9:08 am
why do I have to classify myself within these narrow confines of Arab or African? What good is it to me? Do I claim superiority or feel inferior depending on my classification? this discussion raises a volatile race issue and is only about the non-integration of our peoples and tribes to present a unfied country. If you feel superior,its your right to feel so but without insulting or degrading others. We all have a right to live, work and lead in Sudan ie Silva Kiir is accepted as First VP and Ali Osman as VP all over Sudan. We can be cohesive and strong if we stop this classification business and get down to real nation-building. claiming we have an identity crisis is lunacy. If you perceive yourself as Ethnically and culturally Arab so be it or vice versa !!
69ochanji 07.07.08 at 4:07 pm
arab -african.its called duality.conflict of interests
70Ted 07.19.08 at 2:35 am
The reason why there is so much confusion about Africa is mostly due to the Europeans trying to take credit for its history by teaching American kids that whites built the pyramids and then the Arabs came in and now they are lying and instigating themselves into taking credit for Africa’s ancient civilizations. The Europeans and Arabs have mastered the art of lying about their historic ties to Africa and even go so far as to make the Ancient Egypt -white or Arab. This is why so many people are confused about Africa. Africa is home to black Africans (the entire place)-every non-black group came to Africa in recent days. That includes whites in South Africa, Arabs in norh Africa and now the Chinease in East Africa.
71Clara 09.02.08 at 6:05 pm
Salam Taki you were brilliant in your explanation!
72Maur Abdallah Bwanamaka 09.05.08 at 9:23 am
Asalaam Aleikum to you all
Dear Drima,am not Sudaness but Kenyan from coast province where we share simmiler phenomenon,however going by what i have read from a number of blogers,there is alot of hate and confusion amongst the people of Africa in regard to race and tribe matters,I am Muslim but not Arab, though i express myself in Arabic and am marriade to two wives one pure Arab and the second Afro-Arab while i am pure African does not make me an Arab neither my children but we shall remain to be Muslim.
When we trace the word Africa,it started with the Greek rule of what is today North Africa but formaly Carthage under the discription of Afric meaning a hot province encompasing the sections of Libya,Tunisia upper Egypt through alexandria.
When Vasco da Gama decided to take a voyage to India guided by the maps of Ibn Khaldun which had this discripion of the northern parts of the continent,He dresed the whole continent with the name hence today Africa which does not have relations with ethnic,colour or religion of its inhabitants.
The prophet Muhammad(saw) refered to this continent as known then ABYSINIA the mordern day Ethopia,Before him was profet Moses(saw) whos escapades in Egypt had encounters with guest from Abisinia(watch ten commandments)infect this should have been the true identity of the continet becouse the names comes from the heartland of the continent not as imported as the word, Africa.
The British with there evile tactics of devide and rule added the colore tone in definition of the word African by giving a black meaning,The Africans unaware of this evil took pridge in this definition and has continued to hount them since then to to date,Being Arab does not make you special and this was emphasised by the profet in his last surmon neither being black of the blakest does not make you special aither,there are poeple of fair colour who are very ugly just as there are people of dale coloure who are ugly too,not all European women are beautyfull nether not all Chiness are ugly but the stereotypes injected in your mind deterimine your perspective,so if you are cheap in thinking you get confused with this identity but all in all,Africa is not about colour or ethnicity but continent infact the continent had extended all the way to the Pursian Gulf across Syria Sham which is todays Lebanon but the dreging of Suiz Canal we lost what is commonly reffered to as the Middle East to the Aian continent which has Caucasian Russians as part of it but omits Caucasian Australians and New Zelanders as Oceniacs becouse the Anglo saxons ruled the world as pax Britanica and had to separete themselfs from others in order to impose their evil with ease,otherwise the majority of Arabs are in Africa than in Asia and mojority of Arabs look more like Africans tha Asians,they are not Mongloids becouse they are a subspecis of African tribe.
Traiditional trends have also affected our perspective very much,this include machantile activities and agriculturerall,this goes across race or tribe,where as agriculturallist tend to be conservative,slow,patient and reclousive,machantiles tend to be liberal,flamboyant,agresive,impatiant though some inclusive and others reclousive,then if you can translate this to general over view of our identity crisis,then you can understand why all the tention in the socio-political and economic status of Sudan and generally the of the African diversity which is African FIRST then something else afterwards,i love all of you and Drima the post is wonderfull,keep it up somewhere we shall soon learn and help the generations after us to live a less confused life, SHUKRAN.
73Tee 09.21.08 at 5:20 pm
Very interesting comments. I have a question that I would like to ask everyone. Are you all aware of the fact that the original Arabs were a black-skinned people with kinky hair? And they were pure Arabs-not “mixed with Africans”. Are you aware that the girl in the picture who is supposed to be from the Nuer tribe looks more Arab than the girl who is from the Rashaida tribe? I am prepared to present proof of what I am saying if there is anyone who doubts my words. Also, what is meant by “African” here? Can we use the word “Africa” when talking about history, given the fact that a century ago the word wasn’t used by anyone inhabiting the area. Did the Dinka call themselves Africans in the past? Did the Fulani call themselves African? Did the Ancient Egyptians? Did the Nubians? Did the Nuba? Did the Shagiyya or the Jaaliyyin? Did the Shuwa Arabs of Nigeria and Chad? Did the Kanuri of Nigeria? Did Mansa Musa, who said that he was a descendant of Ali ibn Abi Talib? Did the Arabs along the coast of Kenya and Tanzania? Do you get my point?
74van 09.28.08 at 1:11 am
i stumble across it whilst i was searching for something else.it captivated my attention and i found the discussion enriching,with a lot of insights.I would be interested to know more about issues regarding-original arabs as blacks,historical and cultural links of present date nubian egyptians and nubian sudanese,the ethnical makeup of ancient egypt without partisan views-but based on purely scientific and historical facts and outline of arab population and their minorities groups,and the term arab(racial or linguistic concept).
SO,For long i heard about the sudanese conflict opposing the North to the South,infact it has been depicted by Media as a war opposing the arab-muslim north to the christian-animist south.A war between white arabs and black africans.Back then i wasn’t really interested in Sudan and had never viewed photos and pictures of sudanese people.As tension further mounted in the darfur region which was once more presented as war opposing africans to arabs with the latter being credited with ‘an ethnic cleansing plan’ i became more intrigued and started to ask myself questions about what is going wrong over there.why do white arabs or to be more precise ‘fair-skinned arabs’ want systematically to exterminate black africans.so i began to search more information about Sudan and was shocked when i came across pictures of northern sudanese(arab sudanese), and sudan’s political leaders who were all blacks.Pr. bashir, Al Turabi,Osman Tahar,sadek el Mahdi and the bulk of northern sudan are all blacks.i even watched sudan tv on the net,hoping to see the so called fair-skinned arabs but to no avail.I couldn’t understand or get the point why black people killed other blacks just coz they had a darker tone colour and weren’t muslims.Infact theproblem was more complex than i thought.It wasn’t only link to religion,economy and the like.the most dangerous problem they are facing is the identity problem-that is what defines an individual or a community.a man who can’t define his identity or doesn’t know to where he belongs is in great danger.So i came to the conclusion that media showed and talked about a picture which indeed is different from the reality.
besides i live in Europe and came across some northern sudanese who are blacks and are considered as such by europeans.And even the really fair-skinned arabs are not considered by europeans as whites.now whether northern sudanese ara arabs or not,whether they have mixed blood or not,the fact is there and it is irrefutable-THEY HAVE DARK SKIN AND THEY ARE BLACK,AND ARE CONSIDERED AS SUCH BY WESTERNERS AND EVEN BY THEIR FELLOW MIDDLE-EAST FOLKS. HOWEVER IF THAT CAN COMFORT theh or make them happy to hear it-then they are ARABS. if they feel happy to be and believe that they are arabs then it’s ok and it’s up to them.I have nothing against arabs but i’ve heard and read about alot of racist cases towards blacks in most arab countries who treat blacks like animals and diss them.Arabs shouldn’t forget that present-day there exist black communities throughout their countries who are descendants of former slaves and who contributed to the social,religious,ecnonomic and cultural development of their countries-amongst others are-bilal,antara ibn chaddad,kafur,sadate,mohamed chalgham,etc. And also many fair-skinned arabs have black blood they shouldn’t forget that also. furthermore geographically sudan is in Africa and ethnically they are more akin to blacks.To conclude it may well be possible that there exist pure arabs in sudan but i haven’t seen much evidence.and instead of fight over who is arab,black or afro-arab sudanese should try to put their differences aside and work together for a peaceful and prosperous sudan.
africans,arabs,afro-arabs or whatever u are called or whatever is your skin colour you are all equal and brothers.remember this-1 hand cannot tie a bundle.wish u all love,peace,harmony and prosperity.
i would be interested to have a feedback or read about another article regarding this issue.got my email
75Tariq Berry 09.28.08 at 7:25 pm
Van,
If you give me your e-mail, I can provide you with the information. Or you can order my book The Unknown Arabs. It’s available at Amazon.com.
76Rotator 10.04.08 at 1:30 pm
About 80 percent of African-Americans have varying percentages of European blood (ancestry) from 90 percent European blood to 20 percent European blood. Yet they don’t go around calling themselves “Europeans.” Sudanese like Afro-Latinos are unable to shed the brainwash that Arabs and Europeans (Spanish and Portuguese in this case) are superior to Africans so they call themselves “Arabs” and “Hispanics” rather than African. What a shame! They think that by calling themselves “Arabs” and “Hispanics” means their ancestors were’t ever slaves. And they go around doing the Europeans work for them killing and discriminating against their own African people while the Europeans laugh at how stupid they are. Que lastima!
77rhazes 10.07.08 at 9:56 am
As a congolese person, i stumbled on this blog, because I was wondering why some blacks sudanese claimed to be arabs. I understand that they’ve been arabized long time ago by the arabs conquerors. But the fact remains that those people are black african, it is definetly been a brainswashing process, because blacks have been associated with slaves. The proof is when these black sudaneses arabs go in a real middle eastern arab country, they are going to be reminded that they are NIGGERS, when they go to Europe or America, same thing. So why deny the truth, I see pictures of blacks sudanese and they have some of the darkest skin ever. I think it is a perpetual denial of african origin in here. I am not saying that all africans are black as you can have arabs (morroco,algeria), indians and chinese african. But those nothernn black sudanese are definetly african black. African is by blood, but to I can be a wannabe arab in less then 20 years by following islam code and culture plus changing my name.
78NoName 12.01.08 at 7:26 am
We are Afro-Arab, 50/50, mixed race, lol thats an easier way to put it… There’s hardly any real Arabs any more
79NoName 12.01.08 at 7:29 am
North Sudanese aren’t dark black at all, they are very light brown, I’ve been to an Arab country, and I live in Europe, I’ve never have the N word said to me, why can’t everyone just say we are Afro-Arab
80Voldee 12.01.08 at 7:31 am
North Sudanese aren’t dark black at all, they are very light brown, I’ve been to an Arab country, and I live in Europe, I’ve never have the N word said to me, why can’t everyone just say we are Afro-Arab People think we are pretending to be arab when we aren’t, South Sudan are pure African, North is a mixture, so stop saying that we’re pretending, I find it really offensive, we have arab roots and african roots, ‘Afro-Arab’ thats what we are.
81AfroArabGurl 12.01.08 at 7:35 am
North Sudanese aren’t dark black at all, they are very light brown, I’ve been to an Arab country, and I live in Europe, I’ve never have the N word said to me, why can’t everyone just say we are Afro-Arab People think we are pretending to be arab when we aren’t, South Sudan are pure African, North is a mixture, so stop saying that we’re pretending, I find it really offensive, we have arab roots and african roots, ‘Afro-Arab’ thats what we are. I’m offended with what Rotator said, we call our selves Afro-arab
82Sami 12.09.08 at 8:56 pm
Good post and certainly worht reading. I couldnt hold back from commenting although I dont know where to start. I guess the main thing to say is that the tragic conflict in Sudan is terrible regardless of race/ethnicity, religion etc etc.
I dont knwo in detail about every clan that inhabits the country and their origins but I have read about some of them and some reasons behind the conflict. I will try and make sense of something that is so complex, although often people do oversimplify it, so please forguve me if I dont make sense or if Im saying the wrong thing and have my facts wrong.
As far as Im aware, the conflict in Sudan is between some clans in the Muslim and Arabic speaking North and the non-Muslim and non-Arabic speaking South. I dont know the exact ‘reason’ for the conflict; some say the Northern clans are trying to Arabize the South while other sources say its to do with resources like water. There is of course no excuse for either. Although there are many who speak Arabic and are Muslim in the North of Sudan, from what I have read, they are not strictly ethnically Arab. Some are ethnically Afro-Arab and trace some, but not all, of their ancestory back to Arabia, while others are cultrually Afro- Arab, they speak Arabic and are Muslim but are black Sudanese.
Politically, Sudan is part of the Arab League. By the Arab Leagues standards, Sudan is Arab as many speak Arabic, but that doesnt mean they are ethnically or even cultrually. There are many countries that speak Arabic and have elements of Arab culture (are Muslim). Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon etc etc they all speak Arabic and have a large muslim population but all have a history that pre-dates Islam. It works in the interest of the Arab League to call the above countries Arab as it makes their numbers seem bigger to outsiders and for economic reasons (oil). However, idenity is personal. There are some who might feel Arab as they are Muslim and speak Arabic although ethnically they might be Morrocan or Sudanese etc etc.
On another note, I notice some of you seem to speak about Africa and Africans as if they are all the same. I dont know a great deal about African history and heritage but I was under the impression its a massive continent and the people who live on it are varied.
Although its not really relevant, I notice some of you are slagging off the ‘Arabs’ for supposedly trying to steal Egypt and anncient Egyptian history and pass it off as their own. Firstly, Egypt had fallen to the Byzantium Empire and before that to Roman, Greek, Persian, Nubian, Assyrain rule , prior to the Islamic Conquests and secondly Ive never heard muslims or Arabs try to claim that they were responsible for anncient Egypt and the acheivements of the anncient Egyptians. Muslims most probebly dont want anything to do with anncient Egypt as they usually think that prior to Islam, people were all idol worshipping pagans and Arabs are well aware that the acheivements of anncient Egypt were nothing to do with them PERIOD. There is a well known Egyptin historian, who Ive stupidly forgotten the name of, who hates this Afro-Centric claim to anncient Egypt all being black. It was for some time ruled by a Nubian dynasty as Nubians were highly influenced by it but they were not the same people and are not to be confused. Both Nubians and anncient Egyptians were aware of this.
My other problem is that some of you are talking about Africa and everyone in it as being the same. This is very ignorant. You are oversimplifying it and lumping all people who live on the continant together. In reality, a Somalian is different from a Ghanian, a Morrocan is different from an Ethiopian, a Rwandan is different from an Egyptian and so on and so forth. In other words, Africa is a contitent and many of the countries in it are nation states. Many of the peoples witin the nation states that make up the continent are divided up into clans, although they may be ethnically and culturally the same. Arabs and Islam are new to the area. Well Islam is anyway. Arabs or to be more specific here, southern Arabian clans and peoples have had some link with some parts of the continent prior to Islam (read about the Aksumites and Sabeans). The clans that are in Sudan who claim Arabian ancestory are more recent.
I dont personally know anyone from Sudan so I dont know what they class themsleves ethnically. I respect the fact that some may think of themselves as Arab or Afro-Arab and so should we all. Whether they are cultrually mixed through religion and language or ethnically mixed, we should respect the choice of the individual so to speak. However, I get the impression this varies from clan to clan throughout the country or in the northern areas at least. What confuses me though, is that physically (as in appearence) many of the northern clans Ive seen who claim Arabian ancestory, are ethnically Nubian (black). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiria - look at the pic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawazma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaigiya
interesting how many of these clans say they have arab ancestory but look Nubian, although im disputing the fact. Indeed some of them most probably do. It just seems that the way Arabness is passed down through the male line has ‘washed’ out anything out, even when in reality they are only a very small percentage ethnically arab, even though its not my place to determine their identity.
On another note. I mentioned in my post about how other people who consider themsemv or are consdered arabs have a history that pre-dates Islam. This is true for Palestine, Egypt, Iraq, Syria and the north African countries like Libya, Morroco etc etc. More often than not, Palesitnians are looked down upon by many in the Arabian world proper (as in the saudi and gulf states). On the one hand they act as if they love them but on the other they treat them and speak about about them like dirt. Infact they speak about most people who are not of the same triabe as them badly n many cases. There racial biggtotary not exclusively to black peoples.
Good post Drimma and thank you for shedding some light on an otherwise very complex matter.
Peace
83anonymous 12.17.08 at 12:10 am
bro,
the topic is more than great, but i have 2 points that i want to add,
for the question that you should ask to know wether this person is an arab or african, unfortunatly the answer is B for most of sudanese, this is because for a very smiple reason which is “media & education” i have stayed in sudan and read a from kindergarten till the school certificate, but i haven’t ever heard of KKK, but if you realized there are far explanation about the persians (furs) and how they affect the islam, and how one of them has killed omer ibn alkhatab,and so many more,specially in arabic literature(not to say it is a religous point of view), also at some poems.
whereas the KKK only heard of them when i start watching movies or read about the african-american histories.you might asked this question to sudanese who didn’t really stay for long in sudan or wasn’t exposed to our “rural cultures”.
the second point is, insisting on media,
remeber during war between the north and the south, there were a “patriotic” TV show on the national TV (the sacrificing battleship) or in arabic (sahat alfida) the main reason of the show is to neglect and ignore the african side of most of northern sudanese where at tthat times they consider “the african” as repels.
well what to conclude is that, most of the sudanese see them selves as arabs (which it really pisses me of, although am one of them)
because going outside sudan you are a nigger even in “our beloved arab countries”
the thing that decide wether you are arab or african is not ethnicity but the culture does (my point of view).
well that what could be said for the while but its a really great work, keep it up
84Sami 12.22.08 at 8:57 am
its not as if the Arabs are the only people to be racist is it. what about some of the regimes in Africa ? There have been many genocides and human rights violations commited by African leaders. It suits the AU to point the finger at Arabs for their own politcla gain while on the other hand the AU used to support Mugabe. Its only in recent years that theyve been trying t get him oit of power. They’ll probably do what Arabs do and blame conolialism to avoid taking any responsibility. Now, Im not deny what goes in Sudsna isnt bad but please, stop over simplifying it. Its a lot more coplex than ‘arab vs non-arab’. If we are defining Arabs as a people with a speficis culture and religion, then yes I guess we can call them Arab however to the best of my knowledged many of the Northenr clans have some Arab ancestory but are still clearly black Africans. There are also many southern clans who speak Arabic and are Muslim in the south but they still the northern clans. I was under the impression that much of the conflict was over resources. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sudan
I also got the impression that many northern lans are mixed (partly) with some Arabs but physically they are black Africans, even though they might call themselves Arab.
85ahmed bashir 12.25.08 at 6:49 pm
Hey here is the most important notice have to be added.
there is easy way to differentiate between arabs or non-arab in sudan, the language!,for those whom are not arabic originally speak more than language , and whom speak only arabic are arabs.
No matter what is the colour for the person, you notice that most of sudanese dark people colour are arabs this because of arab tribes got married from africans women but the childern will be related to the father “arabs”.
———————————–
WHY WE ARAB DON’T ASK OUR SELF WHAT IS THE COLOUR OF ARABS?
———————————–
The answer is neither black nor white, ARABS are brown.
————————————
NOWADAYS why do we find most of arabs are white? like syrians, lebanese, egyptian and palestinians and many others….
maybe the same case happened with sudanese, but for them they mixed with the westren people.
but the question is why those white people got accepted as arabic rather than sudanese people?.
the answer is that many humankinds prefer the white colour rather than black…
For NORTHERN SUDANESE you have the right to choose either arab or african, as long as you have a tribe related to arabic people.
wassalamoalikom
86ahmed bashir 12.25.08 at 7:10 pm
But for the unity of our nation i would prefer if every person from sudan call him self SUDANESE, with no further explanations… As long as we are living together so far peacefully, no need to disturb our unity any more.
87(A)n@rchist 12.26.08 at 2:55 am
The Arabs are land thiefs!They are not African.Imagine the fit Arabs would have if Blacks invaded Arabia?There is an racist-based conflict in Sudan;Darfur is ground zero.Why don’t the Arabs and everybody else who is not Black leave Africa?I dedicate this comment to the Black Diaspora,who are victims of the Continuing World War Against Blacks!!!
88Wilberto 01.12.09 at 2:09 pm
ARAB WANNABES (The problem in Sudan today)
Present-day Sudan is home to millions of Arabs, with 40% of the population identifying themselves under the ethnic group of ‘Arabs’ EVEN THOUGH THE OPTION OF ‘AFRO-ARABS’ IS ALSO AVAIBLE. Afro-Arabs within the Middle East itself are for the most part descendants of African slaves who were brought there during the arab slave trade.
89tariiq 01.19.09 at 2:51 am
(A)n@rchist straite up go fuck ur self buddy, i guranetee ur some dirty south sudanese faggit, without us u little dirty ignorant niggers would be lost, i hope to god we make to different countries, u guys are really useless.
90LibaneseMARONIT 01.24.09 at 12:53 pm
they are not arabs they are niggers
91Dana Marniche 03.05.09 at 5:16 pm
The Rashaida belong originally to the Abs tribes who have taken many slave concubines from the Iranians and Syrians. Most Rashaida are not fair in Arabia nor in Africa in color so why put such photographs in this site to pretend that they are. The Abs tribe are describe as “black” men in early Arab literature as are most of the tribes of Ghatafan and the Qay ibn Ailan thus Jahiz 9th c. and Athir of the 11th c. refer to the Sulaym tribesof the Qays as black like the lava of al Harra and of the pure Arabs.
Early Arabs from Arabia were the first “black nationalists” and a rather racist people who looked down upon fair skinned people in Syria Iran and Europe. They referred to themselves as “the blacks” and as Jahiz and others have said were proud of their blackness, considering fair skin associated with slavery. See Tariq Berry’s book, The Unkown Arabs for more info, and also learn to read Arabic historians and linguists since most of you obviously haven’t researched the hisotry of Arabs.
There is no point in confusing early Arabs or with modern Syrians and Iraqis who are mostly Arabs by nationality and not by blood and whom made up most of the slaves of the earliest Arabs. Learn your history before others steal it from you!
92Dana Marniche 03.05.09 at 5:23 pm
“Red, in the speech of the people from Hejaz means fair-complexioned, and this color is rare amongst the Arabs. This is the meaning of the saying … a red man as if he is one of the slaves.” From Seyar A’laam al-Nubalaa, vol. 2, by the Syrian Dhahabi (Thahabi) vol. 2 of the century 13th -14th c. a.d., cited in The Unknown Arabs, by Tariq Berry.
“a fair-skinned Arab is something inconceivable… “ Ibn Abd Rabbu in El Iqd el Farid (The Unique Necklace) quoting Shuraik el-Qadi a 7th century Arab of the clan of Nakha’l of the Maddhij in the Yemen.
“…most Arabs are dark brown in color.” 13th c. Ibn Mandhur (Manzur) Lisaan al Arab, Vol. 4 born in Tunis or North Egypt. See the Unknown Arabs by Tariq Berry on Amazon
93Dana Marniche 03.05.09 at 5:35 pm
Imam Jalaluddin al Suyuti of Turkish and Iranian parentage in the 1400s reported of Abu Bakr, the companion of the Prophet as saying, “Oh Messenger of Allah. As for the black sheep they are the Arabs. They will accept islam and beome many. The white sheep are the non-Arab Persians (and others)… They will accept islam and become so many that the Arabs will not be noticed amongst them.”
In the book by al Suyuti Tarikh El Khulafaa cited in The Unkown Arabs, published 2002.
94Dana Marniche 03.05.09 at 5:52 pm
For all of you Sudanese, Egyptians and other so called brown people - let us also not pretend we don’t know how the Arabs used the term black. As far as the term black goes the Arabs of ancient times - especially in the time of Mohammed used the term black in the same way it is used now by African Americans for people who are brown yellow like the “Bushmen” and some Beja. For people like the Tuareg of Mali and Niger and Fulani or Nafusa of the Sahara, for people like the Ethiopians, Eritreans and Somali and for people who looked like them in ancient Arabia, southern Iran (Makkan coast), India and Egypt of the Pharaohs, especially with kinky and woolly hair!
95Shafie 03.10.09 at 7:41 pm
take it easy! I don’t see any paradox in your question though, Africa is a continent that contains many groups and Arabs only a one group, basically in the North and the East with an influence exceeding in the Sahara
96RS 03.15.09 at 7:16 am
Drima, great post. Another question for you. Who is perpetrating the crimes and Darfur and who are the victims? This is just as relevant as your a) and b) question. The int’l media always portrays the victims as African and the criminals as ‘Arab’.
97omar l'arabe 03.15.09 at 6:58 pm
arabs are purely white sudan is not arab its african black .
5000 years ago the arabs were assyrians babylonians phoenicians cananeens in the arab east coast and egyptians phoenicians karthaginians
in the arab west coast .today the arabs are irakis syrians lebanese saudi
yemeni egyptian marrocan algerians .arabs are white and they remain white .
98omar l'arabe 03.15.09 at 7:06 pm
mister fouad
the arab peninsula engulf all the so called “middle eastern” a colonialist
british bullshit concept like “semetism” is a bullshit .there are no ” semites” but they are arabs .arab peninsula was divided by the romans
assyria babylonia and phoenicia are the north of arabia and aramaic
is an old arab language like the latin for italian ;so please be clever
and don’t repeat what our ennnemie’s propaganda ;colonialist
sionist bullshit .
99omar l'arabe 03.15.09 at 7:18 pm
dana marnouche
i never heard that arabs are black or look like black i don’ know where did you find your bullshit about so called arabs are black!!! may be i will offence you to say you that our first caliphe omar al khattab was a blond
arab with blue eyes in the heart of arabia mekka he belongs to a blond arab tribe that does exist nowadays in the arab west coast and arab east coast its amazing no ;so stop your bullshit
100omar l'arabe 03.15.09 at 7:33 pm
mr marniche
tarik berry have african black roots not arab roots because pure arabs are
white ;the arab language is so subtile to understand it or to explain .
101Chris From Guyana 03.18.09 at 1:35 pm
In my opinion most Sudanese are not arabs. I am from Guyana in South america I consider my self black african like most people in the caribean do. I don’t look any diferent from your president Al Bashir my skin in light brown and I don’t posess so much african features I think in sudan I can pass my self off easily as what you call arab. Interesting. what would Obama be considered in sudan based on looks.
102Andrew Brehm 03.18.09 at 1:41 pm
Chris,
My flatmate is from Guyana. In fact he is currently back there. You have a great country from what I heard about it. Are you a Cricket fan?
Have you heard of Dr Khaleel Mohammed? He is a somewhat famous Muslim scholar from Guyana.
http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~khaleel/
103ras babi babiker 03.20.09 at 1:53 am
We are Africans
and those are words of Peter Tosh, maybe you know the man….
“lyrics AFRICAN
Don’t care where you come from
As long as you’re a black man
You’re an African
(CHORUS)
No mind your nationality
You have got the identity of an African
‘Cause if you come from Clarendon
And if you come from Portland
And if you come from Westmoreland
You’re an African
CHORUS
No mind your nationality
You’ve got the identity of an African
‘Cause if you come Trinidad
And if you come from Nassau
And if you come from Cuba
You’re an African
CHORUS
No mind your complexion
There is no rejection
You’re an African
‘Cause if your plexion
High(3x)
If your complexion low, low, low
And if your plexion in between
You’re an African
CHORUS
No mind denomination
That is only segregation
You’re an African
‘Cause if you go to the Catholic
And if you go to the Methodist
And if you go to the Church of Gods
You’re an African
CHORUS
No mind your nationality
You have got the identity of an African
‘Cause if you come from Brixton
And if you come from Weesday
And if you come from Wingstead
And if you come from France
…Brooklyn
…Queens
…Manhattan
…Canada
…Miami
…Switzerland
…Germany
…Russia
…Taiwan
Peace to you.
104Dana Marniche 03.22.09 at 2:31 am
omar - If you don’t know what the Arabs look like maybe should visit Central Arabia and read a book by an Arabic historian. don’t confuse yourself with the original Arabs just because you speak Arabic. Early Arabs who looked down on the color of Syrians, Iraqis and Persians long before Syrians and Iraqis were considered Arab. Don’t shoot the messenger either. It was the Syrian Al Dhahabi, the Central Asian Tabari, the Tunisian Mandhuri, and the Iraqi Jahiz, the Kurdish Turk Ibn Athir all born before th 15th c. and all the other non -Arab Arabic speaking writers who claimed that original Arabs - the Qureish, the Kenana, Mudrika bin Khuzaima, Mustaliq, Ghatafan, Qays, Rabi’a, Beni Amer, Hilal, Ka’b, Sulaym, Khazraj, Aus, Maddhij, Tayyi, Murad Anakha, Anaezah and Maazah bin Wail, Dhubyan, Azd, Ghassan were dark brown and black in color like the modern north Sudanese.
Later colonial Europeans describe the black and brown skinned people of the Huweitat, Uteibah, the Nadir Jews of Khaibar, Ka’b, Muntafiq, Khafaja, Uqayl, Qara of the Kindites and “black” Ad-Dawasir (Daus) who comprise Taghlib bin Wa’il of Central Arabia and the modern Mahra-Shahra groups who are listed as Shayban and other tribes of the Bakr bin Wa’il in Yemenite sources .
If you had researched history you would have also known that there are were many descendants of “white” slave concubines that became leaders in the Muslim world. That has nothing to do with the fact that the only Arabs that were referred to as fair in color were those who were considered “the color of slaves”.
Maybe you should read a book on the ancient Arab history since you obviously haven’t.
105Dana Marniche 03.22.09 at 2:36 am
omar - Which Arab tribe are you from? Please let me know.
If you don’t know what the Arabs look like maybe should visit Central Arabia and read a book by an Arabic historian. don’t confuse yourself with the original Arabs just because you speak Arabic. Early Arabs who looked down on the color of Syrians, Iraqis and Persians long before Syrians and Iraqis were considered Arab. Don’t shoot the messenger either. It was the Syrian Al Dhahabi, the Central Asian Tabari, the Tunisian Mandhuri, and the Iraqi Jahiz, the Kurdish Turk Ibn Athir all born before th 15th c. and all the other non -Arab Arabic speaking writers who claimed that original Arabs - the Qureish, the Kenana, Mudrika bin Khuzaima, Mustaliq, Ghatafan, Qays, Rabi’a, Beni Amer, Hilal, Ka’b, Sulaym, Khazraj, Aus, Maddhij, Tayyi, Murad Anakha, Anaezah and Maazah bin Wail, Dhubyan, Azd, Ghassan were dark brown and black in color like the modern north Sudanese.
Later colonial Europeans describe the black and brown skinned people of the Huweitat, Uteibah, the Nadir Jews of Khaibar, Ka’b, Muntafiq, Khafaja, Uqayl, Qara of the Kindites and “black” Ad-Dawasir (Daus) who comprise Taghlib bin Wa’il of Central Arabia and the modern Mahra-Shahra groups who are listed as Shayban and other tribes of the Bakr bin Wa’il in Yemenite sources .
If you had researched history you would have also known that there are were many descendants of “white” slave concubines that became leaders in the Muslim world. That has nothing to do with the fact that the only Arabs that were referred to as fair in color were those who were considered “the color of slaves”.
Maybe you should read a book on the ancient Arab history since you obviously haven’t.
106dana Marniche 03.22.09 at 3:32 am
Didn’t you mean Umar ibn el Khattab was the second Caliph Omar!!? In El-Tabaqaat El Kubra, vol. 3 Ibn Saad wrote “I heard Abdella the son of Umar say, ‘ We inherited our black complexion from our maternal uncles.” What is your source that the son of el Khattab son of Nufayl was blond!
El Dhahabi said Salim the son of Abdella son of Umar ibn Khattab was “black skinned.” While Ibn Abd Rabbu in El-Iqd el Fareed vol 5 also refers to him as “a tall jet black skinned man”. Who said Umar son of El Khattab of the tribe of Adi from the Qureish had a blond strand in his hair? Please let me know.
The individuals from the tribe of Quraish from the tribe of Kinana and other clans of Kinana are all called “dark brown” and “black-skinned” when mentioned by the Syrian El Dhahabi, Ibn Saad, Ibn Jahiz, and el Tabari, just like the “Canaanites” in European tradition are called black and the writings of Iranian mercenary descended Wah Ibn Munabbih claimed they were.
107rihab 04.16.09 at 2:45 pm
It still confesses me how people call us Afro-Arabs its disgusting.
I mean as long you are brought up speaking Arabic with a Arabic culture and not to forget the religion which is Islam.
Its disgusting when I hear people stereotyping Sudanese individuals because of there dark skin color. Its labeling and been racist.
When I hear people speak about Arabs I get the intention of there heritage, culture, language and values. This shows to me what an Arab is not the color or there country!
For sure if someone called a black individual a nigger they would get offended its just a natural reaction to defend its dignity, its the same to a white individual when you call them a white pig they would get offended and react. There are physiological reason for this.
I have been brought up in England , I speak Arabic, culture is Arabic my heritage is Arabic, but its just that I’m not fair of color and that I am brown which makes me different to my other Arabic friends who are mainly fair of skin color.
As long my friends and others respect me for who I am which makes me proud to call my self a Sudanese Arab, then I don’t need to listen to treating racial treats.
108sudanese-lady 04.20.09 at 2:31 am
I am part Sudanese (my dad’s side) and part African- American (my mother). I have lived in the U.S. for 12 years and I am 16 now. I wasn’t born in Sudan and have never been there, so thank you for clearing this up for me; my dad’s side of the family is also of the Shaigee tribe. I have had questions about what I considered myself to be and of course I say that I am black, but I wondered about the Arab/ Islamic culture of Sudan and that side of my heritage.
109sudanese-lady 04.20.09 at 2:38 am
Ahmed bashir, you and my dad possess the same sentiments regarding Sudanese people.
“But for the unity of our nation i would prefer if every person from sudan call him self SUDANESE, with no further explanations… As long as we are living together so far peacefully, no need to disturb our unity any more.”
110Andrew Brehm 04.20.09 at 2:20 pm
“As long as we are living together so far peacefully, no need to disturb our unity any more.”
When was that?
I am all for Sudan (or any middle-eastern country) to become a place where people live together and form a new people. But then some things have to change.
The new middle-eastern country cannot call itself “the Arab whatever of someplace” but simply “the whatever of someplace”. And this has to be real, not just words. The native languages of the native peoples must be accepted as official and taught in schools. The culture and history of the native people must be taught and there can be no membership in the “Arab League” as that creates ties to other countries that are also “Arab”.
Sudan would have to become multi-lingual, with official languages being Arabic (for the Arab tribes) and one or two Nilo-Saharan languages for the African tribes that form the Sudanese nation. And some sort of federal system must ensure that individuals of any tribe have equal opportunity to succeed. And what’s most important, and that is probably where it will ultimately fail: one tribe must not dictate whom the other tribes may be friends with. If the Nilo-Saharan tribes want to be friends with the Kurds or the Jews or the Berbers, the Arab tribes must shut up and respect that.
But it won’t happen.
111Alia 04.25.09 at 2:12 pm
There are many Sudanese refugees in Israel now. They have been crossing from Egypt into Israel. I have heard that if they ever were to return to Sudan they would be severely punished and even sentenced to death.
Anyone knows if that is true?
112CHARLES 04.26.09 at 12:44 am
Why do we need to be either this or that. There are some Arabs, some africans, muslims, christians etc and we are all Sudanese. The real problem is how to work together without trying to impose one identity or another on others and then try to eradicate the country from poverty. I am black AND from a tribe which is completely Arabised culutrally and I don’t see any conflict in that.
113Tariq Berry 05.07.09 at 2:10 am
Omar l’arabe, are you still there? I hope you are. Please give me your email address so that I can send you proof of what a pure Arab looks like. Who are your sources? Do you know who the authorities in the Arabic language are? Do you claim to know more about Arabic and the Arabs than Ibn Berry, Al Mubarrad, and Ibn Mandhour? Do you know what they said a pure Arab looks like? Do you know what the father of the sharifs, Ali ibn Abi Taalib the first cousin of the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS), looked like? Apparently you don’t know. Please send me your email address so that I can enlighten you bring you down from your high horse. I’m waiting to hear from you.
114Clyde 05.07.09 at 12:30 pm
Sudan is 50% Arab and a part of North Africa(Arab Semitic White), it is therefore considered an Arab country, part of the Middle East-the current war in Sudan is between the Black Sudanese and the Arab Semitic whites.
115Ziad Mahmoud 07.15.09 at 7:49 pm
Im pretty sure im afr-arab cause both of my parants are from khartoum and not ligh enough to be pure arab and not dark enough to be junubi or pure african am I correct?
116van 07.24.09 at 11:11 pm
Mr Tariq Berry
I would like to know where i can purchase your book about the original arabs and i would be grateful if you could send me proof on my email address(yanuschk7@yahoo.fr) how a pure arab looked like.
I hope omar l’arab does the same. thx in advance
117Sha'ifa Alsqqaf 07.25.09 at 11:32 pm
My father is Arab from Sana the capital of Yemen an dmy mother is an african american from New york For more details email me.
118Nic 09.26.09 at 6:02 am
This is an excerpt from a website which i thought answered the original question quite well:
(http://www.juancole.com/2005/03/googlesmear-as-political-tactic-google.html)
…. As with the Zionist Right generally, he makes the mistake of racializing the Sudan problems, using anti-Semitic language accusing “Arabs” of killing thousands of “black Africans.”
But the “Arabs” of the Sudan are black (some are brown or lighter shades of black, but not by any means all, and anyway so are e.g. Eritreans just to the south). The Sudanese “Arabs” just speak Arabic or identify with the Arabs. It isn’t a matter of US-style race, which is based on color. Moreover, the people of Darfur are Muslims and many know Arabic. So the massacres in Darfur are not about “Arabs” versus “black Africans.” They are between two groups of Muslim black Africans.
I defy anyone to tell me which is the “black African” and which the “Arab” Janjawid in these pictures.
The rightwing Zionists want to racialize the Sudan conflict in American terms, as “Arab” versus “black African” because they want to use it to play American domestic politics, and create a rift among African-Americans and Arab-Americans. Both of the latter face massive discrimination in contemporary society, and they should find ways of cooperating to counter it. What is happening in Darfur is horrible with regard to the loss of life and the displacement of persons, but the dispute is not about race. It is about political separatism and regionalism.
119Amro 10.10.09 at 4:48 pm
this article is really interesting man…..i reckon we should call ourselves Nigrabz
120Andrew Brehm 10.10.09 at 5:48 pm
Nic,
Guess what, the “Zionist Right” is correct.
But you are not. It’s not about race. But it is about an Arab government in Sudan supporting tribes that consider themselves Arab and murdering and enslaving tribes that do not consider themselves Arab.
That makes it a normal middle-eastern situation: Arabs vs indigenous non-Arab people. I think the Arabs should scale back a bit and start recognising the existence of non-Arab peoples.
The age of imperialism ended. It should have ended in the “Arab world” as well.
121Andrew Brehm 10.10.09 at 5:50 pm
Nic,
You should also know that Zionists never think in terms of “race” like the Americans understand it. For us it is always about nations, not race. Whether a Jew is black or white, the Jew is still a Jew. That’s the Zionist view. It’s the exact opposite of the view you are talking about, which differentiates between races.
If you don’t understand Zionism, you really shouldn’t talk about it. And this one misunderstanding on your part already shows that you don’t understand the fundamentals of Zionist ideology.
122ALI 10.11.09 at 1:24 pm
FEWFERGRTGHRTHTYHHHHHHHHHHHHRYDE
123gabrieldavidlado 10.12.09 at 1:44 pm
Ithink there are jews in sudan, since Khartoum was once just a garsion for the colonial army that was sent south of Egypt to discover the new frontier.
124Andrew Brehm 10.12.09 at 2:54 pm
Gabriel,
There were Jews in Sudan. But I am sure by now they all fled to Israel.
125Zoxuf 10.12.09 at 8:41 pm
DNA evidence suggests that all humans originally came from East Africa. So really you could say we are all African.
126Andrew Brehm 10.13.09 at 9:52 am
Zoxuf,
That is true but the subject is still not genetics or race. Whether we all come from Africa and how closely related we are to each other in a genetic sense is quite immaterial. Peoples are not solely defined by genetic relationships. There is language, religion, culture, location, and all of these things are more important than race.
Some people, like Nic above, think of everything as a matter of race and hence naturally assume that everybody else thinks so too. For them it is very difficult (and perhaps impossible) to understand that for others race is of no importance whatsoever and that others are simply not discussing “race” when they discuss differences between _peoples_.
For example, the difference between Jews and Arabs is not race but usually religion, culture and language.
Likewise the difference between Sudanese Africans and Sudanese Arabs is culture and language and, in the south, religion. I can understand that Nilo-Saharan language-speaking Massalith and Nubians do not feel Arab and do not want to be Arabs even if this is difficult to accept for Arabs (and for those who want to be Arabs).
I think the solution is either a partition of Sudan or a restructuring of Sudan from an Arab state into a non-Arab state with Arab nationals living in it among non-Arab nationals. In fact I think this would be the solution for all of the middle-east. It has been done in Iraq and Israel.
127Howie 10.13.09 at 4:01 pm
Zoxuf…
NOW I understand why every time I dance a hora to Hava Nagila…I end up busting out into a Moonwalk.
Ah heheheh….oy
And you realize “yo, yo, yo”…is just the Hebrew read backwards.
We ARE related…
Drima…will you marry me?
128Zoxuf 10.13.09 at 8:40 pm
Andrew,
I agree with you that race is insignificant. I was simply addressing the “ethnic perspective” mentioned in the original topic and pointing out that given our common ancestry it does not make sense to divide humans into different categories over something as superficial as appearance.
129Andrew Brehm 10.13.09 at 10:48 pm
“something as superficial as appearance”
I agree.
But the differences in language and culture are less superficial. I see a risk that some people will misunderstand everything and think it’s about appearance. It’s the “white people vs brown people” way of thinking.
130M.A.Hassan 10.19.09 at 8:04 pm
Drima ,
I think you did a real good job presenting this intersting topic and delivering the idea in a simple way.
I’v always been curious and intersted in these kind of topics since i’m one of the “identity crisis” victims of being arab by ancient fathers ” ga’ali” with african features as a result of interacial marriages .
When i was a kid we use to live in U.A.E an” arab country” , i used to get teased and pulled by the other arab kids at the school for having a “dark skin and a nappy hair” as they calling me “the slave” , it was harsh , and i just knew that am not arab.
Ten years after that on (July 30, 2005) the day that dr.garang passed away i got beat up almost to the death by enraged group of people from different kind of “pure african” tribes .. for having the light black skin , simply for being ” arab ” ..
can you see what kind of dilemma i’m dealing with .
131tell the truth 11.15.09 at 4:12 pm
arab hisstory
The original tribes of ishma’el had blackskin like the africans, also, the arabian peninsula was attached to ethiopia before the land split. The origianal inhabitants of the arabian peninsula were blackskin. Ishma’el mother was an african women from the land of Khem(egypt). Khem(ham) was Noah’s son in the bible and torah. Thus the land of Khem(present day Egypt) was named after Noah’s son Khem(Ham). Ishma’el tribe came from Noah’s other son Sem(also called Shem in the bible and torah) Thus, Khem(Ham) and Sem(shem) are brothers and their offspring are first cousins, and the grandfather of these first cousins is Noah who is the father of Khem(Ham) and Sem(Shem). Tribes of Ham from european historians and anthropologist are considered the Black African Race, or Negroe Race. Since Khem(Ham) and Sem(Shem) are brothers, this means that Sem(Shem) is also Black Africa or negroe race and their father Noah was also Black Africa or Negroe. The other brother was Japheth his offspring became albino(whiteskinned), however, since he was Khem and Sem brother then he was also of the African race or negroe race, his father was also Noah. The European historians and anthropologist define use race as a construct to conquer and divide. As you can see Khem(Ham) Sem(shem) japhith(yafeth) are brothers with the same father and of the same race.
There is a saying and this saying goes like this “the devil is a liar”. The truth of the matter is we all came from Adam and Adam was made from the black clay.
132Andrew Brehm 11.15.09 at 5:04 pm
“Adam was made from the black clay.”
Red clay, surely.
133tell the truth 11.17.09 at 6:40 pm
Adam was made from salsaa-lim-min-Hama-’im-masnuun. The word for Black is Hama in classical arabic. The sudanese thinker is from Sudan, The north Sudan is Islam, thus they are muslims, thus one must respect other peoples religion, thus they use the Quran which uses a classical arabic, and in Al Quran surah Hijra, ayah 28 it says salsaa-lim-min-Hama-’im-masnuun which is translated as potter’s clay of black mud altered, and the word for Black is Hama in classical arabic. In the bible jesus said there will be deaf, dumb, and blind people, they hear but their deaf, their dumb, because they have no intellect, and although they can see their blind. Racism has blinded the christians the muslims and the so call jews, because for them anything associated with the color black is bad. thats why the sudan don’t know if they want to be black africans or arabs. the original arabs were black africans and persia the light persians use to make fun of their skin because the arabs were blackskin, this is in persia history books, persia invaded arabian, and the invaders descendents descendents lived in arabia from generation to generation thats why use see whiteskin people in arabia and yemen, they are descendents of invaders, they are not the original arabs, other white skin races invaded arabia and yemen and this is in their history books. so calling that little white girl in the picture above arab is like calling and english man descendents who been living in america for generation to generation a cherokee. The cherokee are natives of America, one of the original people of america, and the little white girl in the picture above is no more arab, then the englishman is a cherokee.
134Andrew Brehm 11.18.09 at 11:27 am
“Racism has blinded the christians the muslims and the so call jews, because for them anything associated with the color black is bad.”
I do not remember any widespread violent hatred for blacks among Jewish communities.
“the original arabs were black africans”
No, they weren’t.
And the name “Adam” already implies “red”.
135tell the truth 11.19.09 at 10:46 pm
Long before the continent which is now called Africa by the west was colonized, and long before any invasion of foreigners from the caucasian mountains near the baltics, long before christianity or the written bible or ptylomy’s Torah, long before ibrahim was born, before genetic mutations. There was the Blackman in the continent we call Africa, and it is he the Blackman that knows the ancient storys and no other, he knows about himself, and no other. The descendents of the ancients rulers of Africa are still with us today.
Adam does not mean red or ground, In ancient Africa, Adam was Atum(Tem, temu, tum) in hieroglyphs. Atum derived from the word Tem and Atum means the Complete One, evidence is in the pyramid text he is portrayed as both the creator and father of the King. He is depicted as a man wearing either the royal head-cloth or the dual white-red crown of upper and lower Khem which is egypt, reinforcing his connection with Kingship.
In Al Quran ALH gave Adam(Atum) The Khalifa and in Ancient Africa, Atum(Adam) was a man an dipicted wearing the white and red crown of upper and lower Khem, which is Egypt. This was ATUM(ADAM) which means the COMPLETE ONE. This was the one that AL Quraan said that this man was made from the HAMA(BLACK)Clay of the Earth.
There was another that was created before Atum(Adam) and this was the djinn(jinn), the djinn (jinn) was made from the fire. The djinn (jinn) follow Iblis. In surah Hijr, Iblis was commanded to prostrate to Atum(Adam), Iblis didn’t want to Prostrate, Iblisi didn’t like the fact that Atum(Adam) was made from HAMA(black clay). This was the beginning of racism. Read the blog above, when that brother said that them fake arabs was making fun of his blackskin and his nappy hair, now apply them fake arabs to Iblisi and his behavior towards Atum(adam) THE COMPLETE ONE. iBLISI DO NOT LIKE BLACKSKIN AND NEITHER DO THE FAKE ARABS. ALH asked Iblisi What aileth you that you art not among the prostrate? Iblisi said why should I prostrate myself unto a mortal whom you hast created out of potters clay of Black(HAMA) mud altered?
Now you see Iblisi is the racist and his follwers, For Iblisi do not like nothing Black. now ALH said then go you forth frm hence, for verily you are an outcast.
Thus those fake Arabs that don’t like Black are outcast. ALH say lo as for my servents, iblisi has no power over any of them save such of froward as follow iblisi, and lo! for all such, hell will be the promise place. So, fake Arabs keep discriminating, keep calling the Hama slaves, nappy hair, nigger, Dumah, thats how we know you are Iblisi followers and then you go to the mosque and make salat, and make blacks(HAMA) slaves. Well ATUM(Adam) was Made from HAMA (black)clay. Fake Arabs who hate the HAMA (black)hell will be the promise place for you. Read Surah Hijra.
check this out, every ramadhan the fake arabs read the Quraan and then discriminate and call blackskin people nappy head and slave and make fun of their dark skin. Surah BAqarah ayah 7, ALH has sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering, theirs will be a awful doom.
So, when the fake arabs tell you the jews are bothering them, and discriminating against them, and tell you to hate the jews ignore them, because, they are doing the same thing to you, they do not like the jews and they do not like you black man, so dont follow the fake arabs, their problems with the jews is not your problem, stay home live in peace.
136Andrew Brehm 11.19.09 at 11:23 pm
“So, when the fake arabs tell you the jews are bothering them, and discriminating against them, and tell you to hate the jews ignore them, because, they are doing the same thing to you, they do not like the jews and they do not like you black man, so dont follow the fake arabs, their problems with the jews is not your problem, stay home live in peace.”
Yes, that is true. Amen.
137pnano 11.28.09 at 10:55 am
“You should also know that Zionists never think in terms of “race” like the Americans understand it. For us it is always about nations, not race. Whether a Jew is black or white, the Jew is still a Jew. That’s the Zionist view. It’s the exact opposite of the view you are talking about, which differentiates between races.”
So who is it that’s perpetuating these stories of a racial conflict in Sudan between Arabs and Blacks? Who keeps talking about Arabs killing and raping Blacks in Sudan in our White and Jewish-owned newspapers and TV news? Why don’t the Jews say that it is ARAB-SPEAKING BLACKS vs other Blacks? By not saying this it seems that they do want to cause a rift between Black- Americans and Arab-Americans! Why do they show pictures of the Darfurians and never the Sudanese “Arabs”? I think it is clear the false message they want to give to Americans, particularly the Black Americans.
138pnano 11.28.09 at 11:01 am
Thank you Nic and tell the truth for your enlightenment!
139Zaytoon 01.09.10 at 2:10 am
A True Story
“I am Miskeen-for those who know me! My color is dark-the color of the Arabs!”
(words of Miskeen Al Darimi- 7th century AD.)
! انا مسكين لمن يعرفني- لوني السمرة- الوان العرب
(كلمات مسكين الدارمي- القرن السابع الميلادي)
What compelled the famous 7th century pure Arab poet Miskeen Al Darimi to say these words? Before I explain the story behind these words and their significance, I should give some background knowledge about Miskeen Al Darimi.
ماذا جعل مسكين الدارمي- الشاعرالعربي المحض المشهور من القرن السابع - يقول هذه الكلمات؟ قبل ان اشرح القصة وراء هذه الكلمات و اهمية الكلمات, ينبغي ان اعطي القراء قليل من المعلومات الخلفية عن مسكين الدارمي
Miskeen Al Darimi was from the famous pure Arab tribe of Darim. The tribe of Darim is a tribe descended from the well-known Adnani tribe of Tamim .
مسكين الدارمي من قبيلة دارم- القبيلة العربية المحض المشهورة و قبيلة دارم منحدرة من القبيلة العدنانية المعروفة- تميم
Miskeen once proposed to a woman, but she rejected him because of his poorness and his blackness. The woman married another man instead who was richer than Miskeen, but who was from a tribe not as noble and pure as Miskeen’s tribe. Miskeen once saw the woman and man together and he stopped and said to them: I am Miskeen-for those who know me! My color is dark-the color of the Arabs! Click here for the full story in Arabic.
خطب مسكين امرءة فرفضته لقلة ماله و سواد لونه. و تزوجت المرأة رجل آخر ذوا مال ولاكن نسبه ليس كمثل نسب مسكين. راى مسكين المرأة و زوجها ذات يوم فقال لهما: انا مسكين لمن يعرفني- لوني السمرة- الوان العرب! اضغط هنا للقصة ااكاملة
This story shows that as long as 14 hundred years ago, Miskeen Al Darimi felt the need to remind people of what a pure Arab looks like. With the large scale mixing of non Arab blood with Arab blood which started during the Islamic conquests, Miskeen apparently saw the danger of people losing knowledge of what the true Arabs looked like. He obviously felt that we might reach a state where the true Arabs were looked upon as not true Arabs and the mixed Arabs were seen as true Arabs. He attempted to save the true Arabs from being lost as a result of ignorance and deceit.
هذه القصة تبين ان قبل اكثر من اربعة عشر قرن شعر مسكين الدارمي بضرورة تذكير الناس بلون العرب الحقيقيين. مع اختلاط الدم العربي مع الدم الاعجمي الذي وقع كثير زمن الفتوحات الاسلامية, خاف مسكين ان تفقد الناس معرفة لون العرب الحقيقيين. يبدو انه خاف ان يصل الامر الى ان ترى العرب الحقيقيون كانهم مختلطون و نرى العرب المختلطون كانهم العرب الحقيقيون. حاول مسكين الدارمي ان ينقذ العرب الحقيقيين من الضياع بسبب الجهل و الخداع.
This is exactly what we at Save the True Arabs aim at doing. Like Miskeen Al Darimi, we aim at letting the world know that the original Arabs were a black-skinned people and that black skin is a sign of purity of Arab blood. Our aim is to remove the dark-skinned Arabs from the background and put them back in the forefront of the Arab world like they once were.
هذا بعينه ما نحن في انقذوا العرب الحقيقيين بصدد فعله. مثل مسكين الدارمي هدفنا ان نحيط الكل علما بان العرب الاصليين كانوا ذووا بشرة سوداء و ان البشرة السوداء كانت دليل على خلاص نسب العربي. هدفنا ان نأخذ العرب ذووا البشرة الداكنة من الوراء و نضعهم في الامام في العالم العربي كما كانوا في الماضي.
One might ask why we are concerning ourselves with the appearance of the original Arabs. The answer is simply because 1.) It’s a truth that most people are unaware of and we believe in spreading the truth. 2.) What most people believe now is falsehood and deception and we believe in putting an end to the spread of falsehood and deception. 3.) The dark-skinned Arabs of the past and present are being wronged as long as this falsehood goes unchecked. The dark-skinned, true Arabs have, in effect, been stripped of their true identity. We believe in speaking out for and defending the wronged and oppressed. We at Save the True Arabs believe that what has been done to the true Arabs is an outrage and must not be left unopposed.
Is there ever a time that we should be silent about the truth? Why the silence? If it’s proven beyond a shadow of doubt that the Arabs of the past described the pure Arabs as black-skinned and kinky-haired, is there any reason we should today allow the pure Arabs to be described any way other than the way they described themselves?
“There is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world.”
–Thomas Jefferson
Another reason it’s important to correct misconceptions about history and the origins and appearances of people is to avert conflicts throughout the world. A prime case in point is the conflict that exists in the Middle East today. Without a doubt if it were common knowledge that the Arabs were/are a black-skinned people, the problem that we now see in the Middle East wouldn’t exist at all and all of the deaths and hardships that this problem has caused would have been avoided. Therefore, no one should think that this topic is something unimportant or not worth trying to understand and fix. Neglecting this topic has resulted in many wars and deaths over the years.
Another reason it’s very necessary that people understand the importance of knowing the appearance of peoples is to avoid commiting the grave sin of claiming better judgment than Allah (God) and claiming an ability to choose better than Allah (God). This is a form of shirk (associating partners with Allah) and disbelief. Allow me to explain exactly what I mean. The fact that prejudice against dark skin exists in the Arab/Islamic World today is something that cannot be denied by anyone. It’s very unfortunate and ironic, but it’s an undeniable fact that we must admit. Claiming that it doesn’t exist helps no one. There is prejudice against dark skin and there are also people who are not prejudice against dark skin, but who believe in their hearts that light skin is better than dark skin. Allow me to explain how both cases are very dangerous ideas that can make an unbeliever out of a believer. All Muslims believe that humankind is descended from Adam. Muslims also believe what Allah (God) says in the Quran about the creation of our father Adam. Muslims believe that Allah’s creation of Adam was a special creation and that Allah (God) didn’t simply say “Be” and he was, but He (Allah) created and fashioned our father Adam with His own two hands. Allah chose what to create our father Adam from and what characteristics to give him. Allah says in the Quran that He created our father Adam from black mud.
وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا الْإِنْسَانَ مِنْ صَلْصَالٍ مِنْ حَمَإٍ مَسْنُونٍ
“Verily We created man from a black, fermented clay.”
As you can see, Allah (God) says that he created our father Adam from black mud. That makes it quite clear what color Adam was. Not only that, but Allah (God) then named our father Adam “Adam”, which means black-skinned.
Allah (God) then ordered Iblis (Satan) to bow down to His special creation that He created with His own two hands. However, Iblis (Satan) was arrogant and he refused to bow and said:
قَالَ لَمْ أَكُنْ لِأَسْجُدَ لِبَشَرٍ خَلَقْتَهُ مِنْ صَلْصَالٍ مِنْ حَمَإٍ مَسْنُونٍ
“I refuse to bow down to a man that You created from black, fermented mud.”
Iblis (Satan) thought that he was better than our father Adam. This was the first example of prejudice–the first example of comparing and judging. Allah (God) then cursed Iblis (Satan) and expelled him from Paradise. Iblis asked Allah (God) to delay his punishment until the Day of Resurrection and Allah (God) agreed to do so. Iblis then said that he would mislead as many of the children of Adam that he could. One way that he is trying to mislead them is by convincing many of them to dislike the color that Allah (God) chose to create our father Adam. Iblis saw our father Adam and knows what color he was even if many of the children of Adam don’t know today. This is why you find this distaste for dark skin today and racial prejudice against dark-skinned people. Iblis (Satan) encourages man to dislike and look down on what Allah chose, hence the distaste for dark skin in the minds, hearts, and on the tongues of many of the children of Adam. It all goes back to Iblis (Satan) and his arrogance and his hatred toward our father Adam and his looking down on our father Adam and his thinking that he knows what is good better than Allah (God). Iblis promised that he would mislead the children of Adam and make them follow his way and this is exactly what he is doing.
Muslims believe that Allah (God) is the best of creators as Allah (God) says in the Quran:
فتبارك الله أحسن الخالقين
“Glory to Allah–the Best of Creators”
And as He also says in the Quran:
ما ترى في خلق الرحمن من تفاوت
“You will find no defects in Allah’s creation.”
Knowing this and believing this, is it possible for a Muslim who knows that Allah (God) created our father black-skinned to prefer a color over the color that Allah chose? If he/she does so, what does that mean?
Another reason we are raising this awareness of the appearance of the original Arabs is so that it can be clear to all who are prejudice against dark skin and all who look down on dark skin that they are prejudice against and looking down on the Prophet Mohamed’s people and family and they are also prejudice against and looking down on other prophets. I have proven on this website that the Arabs were a black-skinned people. All Muslims should also know that the Prophet Moses was black-skinned because the Prophet Mohamed described him as black-skinned. What I am saying here on this website are not things that I have made up. Everything that I am saying is written clearly in the reliable books of the past. The question is, why are people ignoring these things?
140Pat Patterson 01.10.10 at 2:23 am
I have a problem with the reference to black clay as that the best clay available in the Nile Valley and the Saudian Arabian Peninsulla was a milky red. The black came from the iron oxides and smoke after the pot was placed in a kiln. I think a better translation would have been that it was molded clay not fermented as that is a completely different chemical process.
And Mohamed comment on Moses comes some 17000 years after the fact while the OT refers to him as normal in appearance. Obviously in comparison to the Egyptians as they had raised him and by no stretch of the imagination were black-skinned.
But luckily the truth of a religion is not in proving what color believers are but in whether they are believers.
141Pat Patterson 01.10.10 at 2:29 am
Sorry, that should have been 2,000 to 2.300 years before the Koran was written. Plus Strabo, Josephus and even Herodutus refer to Moses as an Egyptian not a Nubian.
142Africa 01.24.10 at 10:23 am
There are a lot of misconceptions about being Arab in North Africa. A lot here seem to think that North Africa is Arab and Sudan is Arabized. Well North Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia) is just as Arabized as Sudan is. “Arabs” invaded Sudan just as “Arabs” invaded North Africa. I put it in quotes because it was more a clever way of politics where a unified group was able to conquer one tribe at a time and adding it to it’s ranks in order to conquer large parts of a continent. In both cases they haven’t replaced the indigenous population and in some parts haven’t replaced all the culture.
I’m from an area in Southern Morocco where Arab is not spoken even in governing, yes written language has been replaced by Arabic but our culture is distinctly not the same as Nothern Morocco. But even the culture of Northern Morocco is not that of Arabs in the Middle East. Like in Sudan a lot of Moroccan identify themselves as being Arabic but it has nothing to do with ethnicity. The only difference is that the Arabs in the Middle East and Moroccans are both predominately light skinned. I’m light-skinned but I don’t consider myself Arabic, I for one don’t even speak Arabic, it’s not the language I use when talking to my parents and nor did they when they talked to their parents. I’m Amazigh (berber) and African.
But I don’t see Moroccans who call themselves Arabs as invaders. They have been Arabized but they are not Arab. I’m light-skinned but in my region there are a lot of people who have a darker complexion and some are even as black as a lot of sub-Saharan Africans. They can trace some of their ancestry to Sub-Saharan Africa but they are Moroccans and they are not foreigners.
What I sense here is the belief with some that because Arabs are invaders, that the people in Northern Sudan who identify themselves as being Arab and who are of lighter skin that it means that Northerns Sudanese are not native Sudanese. Some light-skinned people might have migrated to Sudan from the North and some dark-skinned people might have migrated to Sudan from the South. Being black in Sudan doesn’t necessarily mean you are of Sudanese ancestry just like being brown or light-skinned doesn’t necessarily mean you are not and vice verse.
That’s just being shallow to the diversity in Africa. Take a look at this.
By contrast, using this colour scheme virtually the whole of East Asia is a virtually undifferentiated sea of pink, Europe a block of blue, and even the diversity of India is reduced to a mix of just two colours. The reason for this is simple: our species evolved in Africa, and all of us non-Africans represent just a paltry sub-sample of the genetic variation that arose there
Africa is a (genetically) diverse continent, that goes further than the color of your skin. Culturally skin tone is a heavy matter but biologically it doesn’t mean much more than the color of your eyes or hair. Dark skinned people in Oceania have a similar skintone as a lot of sub-Suharan Africans but they are genetically more different than sub-Suharan Africans than they are compared to white Europeans. But if you go back far enough everyone living today can trace their roots to Africa. So stop trying to go far back to try to convince yourself that people who are born in the same country are not your countrymen or even people of the continent.
143PY 01.24.10 at 2:20 pm
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145Al-Prince 04.29.10 at 1:53 am
I am Sudanese,my family are in Sudan for the last 100 years,I am a tall man , olive color skin , Caucasian feature, speak Arabic , my religion is Islam , my name is an Arabic name goes back to my 1000 grandfather, my feeling is Arabic,my culture is Arabic,I am proud to be Arabian, may be prophet Mohamed is my grandfather, may be I have other blood on me like Turkish or French, that is good too. So What is all this fuss about.
146the reality 05.09.10 at 4:49 pm
the fact which is has’nt changed that all this anger hatred will stick with our personalities for long the the i dea of being black red white slave ,arab will never faded , it’s runs with our veins .
147AZANIA 06.30.10 at 10:56 am
Yes indeed! Sudan is an African country that bears the scares of arab colonisation, domination and forced assimilation. look at Southern Africa and you will see the traces of Europe in the so called “coloured” people, children born of mixed marriages between Black and white, and still consider themselves African, who now are these african-arabs? Africa is for Africans, the Arabian Penisular is Home of the Arab, and with this mentality we shall have no divided loyalties.. read Pres. Thabo Mbeki’s Poem “I am an African”. All who have ties to Africa Are African!!!
148african=sudanese 08.27.10 at 10:07 pm
Sudan is NOT 50% arab white semitic 50% black african for whoever posted that above. It has a very small pure white arab semitic group. (let’s forget all of this the pure arabs were black, that can come up in another debate…because the majority of “arabs” today are white.. if the former were true) The majority of sudanese are black african, some are afro-arab… but even those, the majority have a more black than white arab ancestry… their arab ancestor was a very long time ago (for the most part)… not a coupling of black and white arab today. and a very small minority is pure arab. The fact that this subject is even debatable is beyond me… Sudan= inside africa = AFRICAN. The black arabs who so desperately cling to their arab ancestry may be called if they so wish afro-arab… but they are not ARABS. they are muslims, they have an arabic culture…does that change the color of their skin? NO. does that change their location? are they no longer in africa? NO.. so they are african. A muslim chinese will still be asian. Arabs come from the middle east, settlers in africa are Now africans.. yet they maintain their title of ARAB. So an arabized sudan may call himself afro-arab but they are still mainly African. just like the white north african still is ARAB. In arabia you will still be a black man…not an arab. why can’t you be muslim, and have an arabic culture without abandoning your own… can you not intermix the two? Are african christians Israeli? is the whole of africa no longer african but arab and israeli? is their no more africa? your blood and DNA still screams negro. Being arab is not just culture and religion despite what one may think…but a race… which is why afro-arabs cling to their arab ancestor… not their black african ancestor…in this case it is the color not the culture they are citing. Why must you deny your heritage? Can one not embrace islam and still be black? How can north sudanese who are mostly black aswell yet arab kill their fellow sudanese? Sudan is a black nation with a small semetic minority yet we EMBRACE that minority and glorify it and try to eradicate our own majority to bring it to the light…. and then what? If we succeed what will happen? Will WE be next? Do you know what europeans repeatedly say of blacks? and i am convinced they are right, the racist and non racists all say…. we cannot look at the bigger picture.. we are not thinkers and planners, but rather we live for the moment… which is not a good thing when ruling a country. We have a fear of being african and would rather be anything BUT. We don’t even know what african culture is. Sudan should NOT be arabic. It should be muslim. Isn’t the most important thing before all God? did he not say not to kill? not to hate? yet we call ourselves muslims. We are blacks and we are african, we are NOT arabs and should never aspire to be. Let’s make arabs want to abandon their culture to be like us, not the other way round. let’s be the leaders, not the followers. Islam is the most important thing in their so called arabic culture, other than that…the rest is just language, lifestyle and food. The ONLY indegenous people to africa are blacks And the berber whites Not semetic arabs…who lived at the northern part of north africa mostly in mountains … and managed to live more or less peacefully among black africans. Ancient egypt was formed out of blacks, berber whites and mixture of the two. Sudan was Nubia, a black population, No arabs and a great historical emblem. When sudan was a pure black nation we created pyramids and made history… after arabization there was slavery and now war…. i personally prefer the former.
149Anwar 09.03.10 at 5:30 am
In reality that Rashaida girl is more ethnically Non-Arab (probably persian, but maybe turskish, greco-roman or slavic) than Arab. Check out:
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/shades-of-arabic-skin-complexions-an-explanatory-note/
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/fear-of-blackness-descriptions-and-ethnogenesis-of-the-original-afro-arabian-tribes-of-%E2%80%9Cmoorish%E2%80%9D-spain-by-dana-marniche/
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/fear-of-blackness-part-ii-dana-marniche/
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/arab-press-says-most-of-iraq%e2%80%99s-oppressed-blacks-are-ka%e2%80%99ab-and-qays-arabs-while-a-minority-descend-from-zanj-dana-marniche/
http://www.savethetruearabs.com
And if you don’t believe all that real lisanul-’arabi. These are shocking facts, they were even to me.
150Ala 10.05.10 at 2:44 am
I promise you this is one of my favourite topics. I hate how people make it a big deal though.
Im sudanese, but i’m arab. Northern sudanese/the ones who have a lighter skin tone are arabs. southern, the darker ones with small eyes and big nose are simply african.
northern take southern as slaves. go to sudan and see for your self.
lmao, it suprises me people dot know shit about this crap…;)
151J. 10.10.10 at 12:44 am
This is my first time visiting this blog. I was searching for more information about Dhiyaa Al-Musawi, but this is more interesting. This debate reminds me of similar debates I have seen among Lebanese (”Are we Arabs, Phonecians, Assyrians, or something else?”), Somalis (Arabs vs. Africans, round 5000), pretty much every nationality in Latin America (how “white” can you be and still be natively “Latino”?), and even stateless people like the Assyrians and Kurds (conflicting claims to Northern Iraq). It’s always depressing, but I guess its understandable. If you’ve lived on the land ever since there have been people on it but are treated by more recent groups like the guest (or worse) of a foreign country, it makes sense to be mad. A lot of my friends who are Imazighen, Coptic, Assyrian, or Native American have said similar things. The problem is that these people are always the disadvantaged: They don’t belong to the majority religion of the country anymore (Copts), or even if they do they resist the culture and language of its missionaries (Imazighen) and are discriminated against at official levels for their intransigence.
It makes things difficult to continue for the minority, but once those pre-colonial people are gone, the society is impoverished in a way it cannot recover from, because it loses its own roots. I remember reading an article during my undergraduate study in Linguistics about the building of the Iraqi Arab identity under Saddam Hussein and the Ba’ath Party. The Ba’ath Party was secular and socialist so it used a lot of propaganda about Iraq’s Assyrian past to try to make it seem like the Arabs were the inheritors and continuation of that history instead of the destroyers of it. In the article an Arab peasant woman who saw a government-sponsored parade of Assyrian antiquities was quoted as talking about how “they showed the ruins of Iraq, with the mysterious writing of the spirits on stones that only Allah could read”. The article goes on to explain that what she had seen was actually Assyrian inscriptions from the north, written in the script of that language that (at that time, in the late 1970s) was the native language of 1.2 million native Assyrians in her own country! They certainly could have read it, but the Assyrians, like the Copts and the Imazighen and many other people, don’t fit the Arab-centric historical narrative that came with the Muslim conquests of the Middle East and North Africa, so they are left out or suppressed in most discussions. It is a crime and I hope that in the future similar things do not happen in the debate about Sudan. Everyone’s opinion should count, no matter how they see themselves.
Please understand I mean no disrespect to any Muslim or Arab by pointing this out. Similar things could be written about the Muslim population of Crete, for instance, who were derisively labeled as “Turks” by the dominant Greek Orthodox of the island whether they were ethnically Turkish or Greek.
152My Take 10.12.10 at 6:23 am
I am black american. I don’t consider the people who occupied northern Sudan from the arab peninsula anymore african than I consider americans as native americans. They’re just basically doing what colonists did to the native americans. And you know what gets me? They scream and holler, have jihad, over Israel as occupiers. Can you say “HYPOCRITES?” The arabs are just as guilty of being occupiers as any colonist and now you’re getting a taste of your own medicine. Now they can’t even leave the southern part of Sudan to its indigenous people…..SHAME.
153l.maiden 10.17.10 at 5:52 am
To All,
Look, ladies and gentlemen you’ve all raised some valid arguments and some truths, some far fetched and outlandish ideas. Look, African Americans share similar situations. Hundreds of years ago West Africans were brought, stolen and enslaved into America by the Spanish, French and English Europeans. I’m an African American. My history goes like this. My mother’s people were of African, Native American(mistaken as Indian by Europeans), Anglo-Irish and Chinese descent. My father’s people are of African, Native American(historically mistaken as Indians by Europeans) , Anglo-Saxon, Filipino and Irish descent. So to sum up this complex pool of mixed ancestry. I for the most part look like your typical African American. I guess, that’s not saying much since most African Americans have a considerble large percentage of mix ancestry. I have been mistakened for an Arab, Ethiopian, Moroccan, an Egyptian and a Hispanic. My brother really does look Morrocan and has been mistaken for North African or Hispanic(one with Afro-Spanish ancestry). My wife who’s also African American looks extremely mixed. She’s pale skinned with a slight peach and yellow tone. She has hazzle-green eyes, sandy brown and blonde hair and have been mistaken for Latin, North African, Arab and even white! Our two daughters cam out with vastly differnt looks because of the large mix ancestry. My older daughter, has pale skin like my wife but her eyes are as slanted as an Asian. My younger daughter has a browner complexion similar to mine but her eyes are extremely slanted. When people don’t see me with my family they assume my wife must have married an Indonesian or a Filipino man. Our official and native language is American English. But at the end of the day we are Black-African Americans. No matter where you’re born or what language you speak if you have any percentage of Black ancestry you are truly Black. Your skin can be as white as snow. Your hair can be as blonde and as straight as straw; eyes as blue as the sky and speak French, Spainish, Arabic and even Chinese. My brother and sisters you’ll still beautiful and BLACK no matter what anyone thinks. Thank you.
154Sarah 10.27.10 at 4:10 am
I know im late but I just came across this. I wanted to point out that it didnt really make much sense to say Arab and African. The reason being is morocco, tunisia, algeria,libya, and egypt are all arab countries but they are in africa. so would they all have to choose between arab or african? africans can be arab just like white south africans can be african. Arabs are very diverse in looks and traditions and I would consider Sudanese people as arab for more than one reason. 1.) Language is the biggest factor. 2.) you are where you came from and sudanese ancestory comes from Saudi arabia(an arab country) 3.) culture and tradition. Although we are mixed its easier for me to classify myself as arab because of this. If i was placed in a room with an Arab and someone from Africa who would I have more in common with. The only thing I would have in common with the african would be looks maybe. but i cant speak to them in my arabic, have the same religion or culture. With the arab I can speak to them, we would have the same culture, traditions, foods, holidays etc. Being classified as Arab or african goes far further than appearance you have to look at it in terms of what you have in common language being the biggest. If sudanese werent arab we would speak arabic.
155stephanie 11.01.10 at 11:24 pm
I love people and I love being human. I really don’t know my true ethnicity, I come from a wide multi-cultural bloodline, I like all sorts of cultures and colors. I do speak some spanish, I learned that in school, so I don’t think that would make me of spanish dissent. Why does it matter what land you are from? Put your differences aside. Enjoy being who you are and embrace everyone’s beliefs, even if you don’t agree with their logic. I have certain beliefs but I never force them onto anyone. Peace and God Bless us all.
156stephanie 11.01.10 at 11:29 pm
I thoroughly respect and enjoyed this article.
157Zuhal 11.02.10 at 12:21 am
Hello
I Am sudanese. I live in New York and have a lot of different views. What i don’t understand is when people says “drop it, you’re african”. Well not really. Our skin is darker than arabs, but fair compared to black people. Other than that we have Arab cultures and traditions. Religion too. We are not just going to give all that weve been living with just to “make it easier to be called african”. No we are not just african. If anything I’m part, and mostly arab. It just depends on were exactly you’re from. My family, I look full arab, so does my family, and grandparents, and so on. I still claim african and arab. If I had to choose one, it would be arab, since I do carry out most of there culture. Location is the only setback..
158waad 11.02.10 at 3:58 am
that nice info .hey Drima .do you have some info regarding the Ja’alin .
my mom is half JA’alin through her father side . i made some research about them and some say that they are mixed with nubians ,other say that they are mainly mixed with Upper Egyptians and Nubians .
any more info will be nice
159Andrew Brehm 11.02.10 at 5:47 pm
Sarah, the problem with imperialism is that suddenly a country can become X even though it is located in Y.
Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya are “Arab” countries because the Arabs invaded Tamzagha and made it the “Arab Maghreb”. Europeans have done similar things.
I don’t really think you have the right to decide, even for yourself, whether Sudan is Arab or African. It’s up the Sudanese people, to each tribe, to make that decision. YOU have to respect it.
The Africans in the south and west do not speak Arabic and most aren’t even Muslims. They are certainly not Arabs and never wanted to be. It is only our “international community” that dismisses their identity and calls them “Arab”.
An Australian aboriginal does not become “English” (and probably doesn’t want to be) just because Great Britain conquered Australia. And neither are Indians and Eskimos now Europeans just because the US and Canada are the result of European imperialism.
Sometimes and this is very rare, the conquered people take back their land from the conquerors.
It happened in Israel, it is happening in southern Sudan, and it will happen in Kurdistan, eventually. The Arab empire will finally shrink but it will keep the majority of the land the Arabs took.
We’ll see whether it is enough for Arabs to get to keep most of the land they stole while respecting the right of the conquered to live on the rest of the land.
160sarah 11.09.10 at 12:04 pm
I would consider sudanese arab if they are from the north because 1.) there roots trace back to Saudi Arabia. Sudanese people from the north are not the original sudanese. the ones in the south who don’t speak arabic are the original sudanese. 2.) if you are in a room with an arab and a black african who would you have more in common with? with the arab you share the same language, roots, most likely religion, culture, tradition etc. with the black african what do you have in common? possibly skin color/appearance. thats it. this is more than skin deep. and egypt, morocco, tunisia, libya,algeria are all in africa why are they considered arab but not sudanese? doesnt make sense.
161sarah 11.09.10 at 12:09 pm
Andrew, I am sudanese thankyou very much. so leave it up to me. its my culture and I know more about it than you do. I am a sudanese from khartoum and I cant pass as black because I look fully arab. people are where they came from and the northern sudanese came from saudi arabia. Im not speaking about southern or western sudanese. sudan is a diverse country and theres more than one ethnicity in it. its the largest country in africa so there are plenty of different type of people.
162Andrew Brehm 11.11.10 at 11:25 am
Sarah, what does any of that have to do with what I said about nations defining themselves? If you see yourself as Arab, you are clearly not one of those Sudanese who does not.
A “diverse country” is simply a polite term for imperialism. The non-Arab Sudanese clearly don’t want to be ruled by Arabs. Calling those very different groups “Sudanese”, just because the Europeans once decided to draw a border around and not between them doesn’t change anything.
I don’t consider all Egyptians, Moroccans etc. Arabs, btw. I think Egyptians should be Egyptians and I know that many Maroccans and Algerians who speak Tamazight (which their Arab governments do not recognise) are Berbers, not Arabs.
Not everyone in the British Empire was English and not everyone in the Arab League is Arab. People have their own identities.
Invasion, occupation and Arabization have changed a lot, usually to the worse. I think it is time for all the people of the Middle-East to have a voice.
163sarah 11.12.10 at 6:50 am
you obviously don’t know anything andrew. just worry about something else your not even sudanese you shouldnt care. and you won’t know what i mean unless you are one. people can be mixed and you fail to understand that.
164Andrew Brehm 11.12.10 at 4:41 pm
Sarah, if you run out of arguments, try insulting the opponent. It’s not new.
Why would I have to be Sudanese (whatever that means) to respect the wishes of the people of southern Sudan? I do not subscribe to the theory that European colonial masters create nations by drawing lines in the sand.
If you are an Arab from Khratoum you are unlikely to understand the feeling of the people of southern and western Sudan. Guess what, their main point is that the Arabs in Khartoum don’t care about them.
And you still think that everything is fine and that you speak for the people you rule. Well, you don’t.
165Sarah 11.15.10 at 2:18 am
If that was considered an insult than you must be quite sensitive. This discussion isn’t about what the people of the south, north, west or east feel. Its about self identity. Ive lived in Sudan almost all my life and the people of the south don’t consider the people of northern sudan there people. So instead of paying attention to the media which is clearly where your getting this information from, you need to do some real research. Some people of the north don’t treat the people of the south equally which is terrible but guess what Andrew, many of them don’t give a damn about us either and wouldnt in a million years consider us the same. It goes both ways. But your on the wrong discussion because your talking about a whole different topic. The writer is speaking about identity not what Europeans do or how southern Sudan feel. Anyway you can’t even spell Khartoum correctly and you also said Sudanese “whatever that means” so I am going to conclude once again you know nothing. Its not an insult, its a fact.
166Andrew Brehm 11.15.10 at 11:01 am
No, Sarah, it is an insult. You disagree with me and hence claim that I “know nothing”. That’s about as blunt as an insult can get.
Your self identity has absolutely nothing to do with how people of southern “Sudan” feel. And yes, it isn’t really clear what “Sudanese” means in the context of Sudan being a country formed by European imperialists. The discussion topic here is “Sudan: Arab of African”, and I am telling you that there is no such thing as “Sudanese” except as an artifically-formed construct created by Europeans.
And what was the other “argument” you brought up? I must be wrong because I made a typo? Brilliant, Sarah, truly brilliant. (You misspelt “I’ve”, by the way.)
I am telling you that the people of southern Sudan do not feel that they have the same identity as you and you say the same thing but declare that I am wrong. It’s truly brilliant.
Either way, you have to learn that your location is not an argument. It’s a fallacy to assume that truth depends on the location of the speaker. You might or might not have lived in (northern) Sudan all your life and you might or you might not be right. The two have nothing to do with each other.
167Sarah 11.15.10 at 9:31 pm
My saying that you know nothing isn’t an insult, its simply a fact. And by the way, while were talking about insults…Your basically insulting me by saying theirs no such thing as Sudanese. I am Sudanese so are you saying I don’t have a race/ethnicity or that I don’t belong to anything? My misspelling “I’ve” has nothing to do with Sudan, you misspelled the capital so you don’t know anything about Sudan. I don’t understand why you insist on defending only southern Sudan as if your apart of them. I’ve lived in Sudan and I’m telling you, the disrespect goes both ways. Many of them aren’t willing to except many of us in northern Sudan. In fact, In southern Sudan when children are young they scrub them with a hot towel to “darken there skin” so they can differentiate even more from the north. I don’t see anyone in the north trying to do something to be more different. So reevaluate your “knowledge”.
168Sarah 11.15.10 at 9:35 pm
Sudan formed by European imperialists? Get over that. Dumbest thing i’ve heard seriously. I love how because Sudanese people are so mixed you just conclude theirs no such thing as Sudanese. Pure ignorance. By the way, almost every country in the world has a mixture of ethnicities so is there a no such thing as countries? what about America?
169Sara 11.16.10 at 3:13 pm
I really enjoyed this article.
170time for peace 11.16.10 at 4:34 pm
In The Name Of Allah, The Most Compassionate Most Merciful.
people, we are all humabeings and believe me thats this is the Shaytan and his agents who would dare to sow hatred between humanity in such a manner. Diversity is a blessing and we should come to appreciate whatever race Allah chose us to be from. After all, the Prophet for the whole humanity, the one who was sent for the black, white and whats between, told us : You all belong to Adam, and Adam was created from clay.
Now please lets reflect deeply on this beautiful call from Allah to all of His servants.
Hadith Qudsi 17:
On the authority of Abu Dharr al-Ghifari (may Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet is that among the sayings he relates from his Lord (may He be glorified) is that He said:
O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you, O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you.
O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and will not attain benefitting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything.
O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more that a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him finds good praise Allah and let him who finds other that blame no one but his own self.
It was related by Muslim [also by at-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah]
contact me at timiz56@hotmail.com
171Andrew Brehm 11.17.10 at 9:50 am
Sarah,
You are clearly very ignorant of the history of Sudan. (And no, it doesn’t matter that you were born there.)
Don’t put words in my mouth. I didn’t say that there is no such thing as a Sudanese people because “Sudanese are so mixed”. I said that the people of southern Sudan do not feel that they are part of the same people as the Arabs in the north-east. And the only reason they live in the same country is because imperialists drew the borders. (And yes, it was the Egyptians and English who did that.)
Americans feel American. It’s a common nationality. But I bet that American natives (Indians) don’t necessarily feel that they are the same nation as “Americans” (which is why they are recognised as distinct nations) and the natives of Sudan feel the same about the Arab Sudanese.
Yes, many countries have a mixture of ethnicities. But most (hopefully) do not have one group in charge while slaughtering the others.
2.5 million dead in southern Sudan. 300,000 dead in Darfur. Tens of thousands enslaved. Millions are refugees. And you call that “one people”?
172Sarah 11.18.10 at 7:16 am
really andrew? did you go to sudan to know if those deaths are actually true? or did you just listen to the media who loves to make muslim/arabs look bad? obv. your the ignorant one. and if thats not the case why is there a no such thing as sudanese? you didn’t say there’s a no such thing as egyptians, Moroccans, tunisians, saudi’s etc.
173Sarah 11.18.10 at 7:19 am
By the way, how do you know how they feel? and did you ever wonder how the rest of sudan feels? ignorant.
174Sara A. 11.19.10 at 11:25 pm
Hey guys,
how’s it going?
How can some of yall say that the afro-arabs are mainly african? How would you know? It would’ve all started with a pure African and a pure Arab, making you “half and half”. How would you know if they were to go on marrying arabs, africans or the mixed “half and halves”? You know what i mean?
Someone please clarify, it would be highly appreciated
175X 11.22.10 at 10:50 pm
So basically Sarah, you saying the genocide did not happen in Darfur. These women, children, did not die. The press is lying. I sure hope so because i am so sick and tired of all these white wannabes. You are not white, you are black born in a black country. killing all these innocent children raping these females serve no purpose none at all. Sometimes i wonder if God is racist. Will God let any blacks in heaven. Come judgment day will the Wite man go first then the Arab, and the blacks. I think we should fight for what is right not religion, language, skin color but what is right. No children should suffer because of a group of ignorant wannabes
176Alysson 11.24.10 at 3:30 pm
sudanese people are arabs.
177Andrew Brehm 11.25.10 at 2:59 pm
I will be going to South Sudan in a year.
Until then I believe the words of my friends, Muhammed Yahya (from Darfur) and Francis Bok (from the south). The media do not exactly have a history of making Muslims or Arabs look bad. Usually the media blame Israel and portray Muslims and Arabs as peaceful angels driven to desperate acts of terrorism by an oppressive Jewish state. Sudan has been pretty much ignored by the media.
There are Egyptians. There are no “Saudis”. Saud is a family that used to rule the middle of Arabia until they took the Hashemite Kingdom of Hejaz and called the new state “Saudi-Arabia”. Moroccans are Arabs and Berbers. Tunisians are mostly Phoenicians (genetically).
And I know how people feel because they talk to me.
Sara A.: I don’t so much care about genetics. But if someone speaks a Nilo-Saharan language and says he is not an Arab, I believe him.
Alysson: No, they aren’t. Arabs, as surprising as that might sound to you, are from Arabia. (Just like Jews are from Judaea.)
178Sara A. 11.25.10 at 8:31 pm
I know that Sudanese people are a mixture of Arab and African.
I just wanna know if they’re more black than they are african or vice versa?
179Sara A. 11.25.10 at 8:39 pm
I’m specifically referring to the Afro-Arab sudanese.
180Andrew Brehm 11.26.10 at 10:55 am
Some Sudanese are a mixture. But Arab culture really hasn’t infiltrated much into the west and south. The south isn’t even Muslim. It’s unlikely that Arabs mixed with them and all converted to African pagan religions.
The vast majority of people in Darfur and the south is simply completely non-Arab black African.
The Afro-Arab Sudanese can decide for themselves if they are more Arab or more African (where “African” means here “Nilo-Saharan”).
But what they cannot do is decide for the non-Arab Sudanese.
181ron 11.30.10 at 6:28 pm
The majority of Sudanese are African. Even those belonging to Rashida who are usually categorized as Arab. The Africans from Southern Arabia and Yemen are a subset of East Africans.
Africans have the most genetic diversity on the planet.
Wavy or straight hair does not negate ones Africaness. There are plenty of Africans with wavy and/or straight hair and recessive phenotypes (i.e., green or blue eyes and blond hair). Sometimes even West Africans can produce children with blond hair and/or blue eyes.
All other non-Africans on Earth a subset of East Africans that is why they have East African features.
The Sudanese have not changed genetically to a significant degree for over 10,000 years.
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{ 9 trackbacks }
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